2851
oeditor
Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 15:34:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Mikey Brass <michael.brass@...> wrote:
>
> Marc Draco wrote:
>
> > I would be worried that using an apple you fall foul of both Apple
> > Computer and Apple Records.
>
> You would be right to be worried if an apple was used.
>
So it's not safe to use an Apple (not that I can really see why we'd
want to) and we mustn't upset the xians by using a variant on the
Darwinfish - so who can we upset? Well, the cretinists of course, but
what symbol of cretinism is there to negate? All I can suggest is that
we use some form of iodine, as a positive symbol - because cretinism
in the medical sense is caused by iodine deficiency. But I suppose not
a lot of people know that, and anyway cretinism is just an in-term. So
not a lot of point to my musing - but I just can't think of anything
else :-((
Brian
2852
Roger Stanyard
Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 15:52:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Rudy Vonk <rudy@...> wrote:
>
> On 20 sep 2006, at 15:45, Mikey Brass wrote:
>
> > You would be right to be worried if an apple was used.
>
> Aren't we getting "paranoid beyond our station", so to speak?
>
> The apple itself can never be a bone of contention. Nobody can
claim
> the intellectual property of something that hangs abundantly on
every
> tree here. Only what you do with it may become an issue. You'll
find
> scores of other apple-based logos and publicity.
IIRC the problem relates to the similarity with the Apple Corp logo
and the use of the name Apple with it. Despite what Andy "Shill"
stated, it seems to me we are on pretty safe ground at the moment.
Certainly Martin's and JAF's apples looks nothing like that of Apple
Corp. The latter has a bit taken out of it. JAF's is a different
colour as well.
We are not a commercial organisation tried to ride off the back of
Apple Corp. They ain't gonna wast their time suing us. If the worst
comes to the worst all we will get is a threatening legal letter. If
that's the case we can either use it as toilet paper or get another
logo.
2853
George Jelliss
Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 16:08:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Marc Draco <midnight.diamond@...>
wrote:
>
> I think it needs to be more "graphic" but the idea is excellent.
>
> Early Christians use fish, IIRC. We should adopt something else.
> George's Anti-creation logo (when he met Ken Dodd, sorry Ham) of the
> ape->man->idiot was pretty cool.
>
That leaflet was an old one that we reused. I'm not sure who put the
design together. I disclaim all credit or blame for it!
There was an amusing item in the 16 September New Scientist in the
Feedback section about someone who found an advertisement for a site
with the name "The Origin of Life: Answers in Genes". But it turned
out to be Ken Ham's site with the last two letters cut off.
Perhaps we could adopt "Answers in Genes" as a slogan.
Why not a double helix or galactic spiral as a logo? Or some symbolic
combination of both?
2854
Wankle Rotary-Pyjamas
Re: Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 16:01:00
I think a previous post mentioned a DNA strand. I think that would be highly
appropriate for a campaign group pushing science.
Phil.
P.S. I also seem to remember some American company trying to patent DNA..!!
----------
>--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Mikey Brass <michael.brass@...> wrote:
>>
>> Marc Draco wrote:
>>
>> > I would be worried that using an apple you fall foul of both Apple
>> > Computer and Apple Records.
>>
>> You would be right to be worried if an apple was used.
>>
>So it's not safe to use an Apple (not that I can really see why we'd
>want to) and we mustn't upset the xians by using a variant on the
>Darwinfish - so who can we upset? Well, the cretinists of course, but
>what symbol of cretinism is there to negate? All I can suggest is that
>we use some form of iodine, as a positive symbol - because cretinism
>in the medical sense is caused by iodine deficiency. But I suppose not
>a lot of people know that, and anyway cretinism is just an in-term. So
>not a lot of point to my musing - but I just can't think of anything
>else :-((
>
>Brian
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
2855
George Jelliss
Re: Daily Mail & Hitchens
20/09/2006 16:23:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Rudy Vonk <rudy@...> wrote:
>
> On 20 sep 2006, at 13:35, oeditor wrote:
>
> > --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Marc Draco
<midnight.diamond@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I may have missed this, but what's the deal with this
> Hitchens dude
> > at
> > > the Mail? Is he a cretinist?
> > >
> > In a word, "yes". Have a look at http://tinyurl.com/eafd3
>
> Good grief! This man is more viciously fanatical and ignorant than
> almost all the other nutters put together! He wants biology
> transferred
> to religion class, but expresses no alternative regarding what he
> believes should be taught in science classes. He probably doesn't
> want science to be taught at all. Considering the Mail's
> circulation, this
> man is very dangerous...
>
Surely he is being satirical? I certainly hope so! I think he's just
a columnist who likes to attract attention by saying outrageous
things to annoy the intellectuals at The Guardian.
2856
oeditor
Website/wiki index
20/09/2006 16:22:00
Probably a lot of people know this, but I've only just found out: no
need to go via "more" for an index of pages in the wiki. Just click on
the "List Group" button at the bottom right.
Brian
2857
Rudy Vonk
Re: Re: Daily Mail & Hitchens
20/09/2006 16:43:00
On 20 sep 2006, at 17:23, George Jelliss wrote:
> Surely he is being satirical? I certainly hope so! I think he's just
> a columnist who likes to attract attention by saying outrageous
> things to annoy the intellectuals at The Guardian.
If that bit was satirical, I admit that I fell for it :-(
However, is satire a safe bet, considering the Mail on Sunday's
readership?
I would be interested to see whatever prompted Marc Draco's original
post on this subject.
Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored]
2858
Jessica Skelton
Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 16:51:00
Hello all,
(I get all my messages via a daily digest, so this may be hopelessly
out of date)
I actually have a fair amount of experience with graphic design, plus
it's what my brother-in-law does for a living. He's out of contact at
the moment, but might give us some pointers when he's back off holidays.
Some things that came to mind:
1) I think it's important to have the same logo for all media. This
will give the organisation a clear identity, which is vital.
2) *Don't* use too many colours. This way if any kind of bulk media
needs to be produced, it can be done at a commercial printer without
costing an arm, leg and firstborn child.
I'll have a go and see what I can knock up later.
Cheers,
Jess
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "untheable" <anarch@...> wrote:
>
> Might one of these be suitable for a logo?
>
> http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos
> Album - logos.
>
2859
ukantic
Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 16:56:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Mikey Brass <michael.brass@...>
wrote:
>
> Marc Draco wrote:
>
> > I would be worried that using an apple you fall foul of both Apple
> > Computer and Apple Records.
>
> You would be right to be worried if an apple was used.
>
If the Apple (not a bad logo by the way) was just one of several
graphical elements within the logo, I don't see it being a problem.
This one includes the atom symbol & would also in the final version
contain the initials BCSE which would clearly differentiate it from
Apple Computers. IMO anyway.
Alan
2860
George Jelliss
Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 16:59:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "George Jelliss" <gpjnow@...>
wrote:
>
>
> Why not a double helix or galactic spiral as a logo?
> Or some symbolic combination of both?
>
I've just put together this quick sketch. Someone with more artistic
abilities may like to improve on it.
2861
Mikey Brass
Re: Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 17:42:00
Martin Young wrote:
> Is that a professional opinion Mikey, or based on case knowledge?
A view I have formed reading about Apple based on their public
statements and litigations. People can argue about this till the cows
come home, but I feel why should the list even place itself in a
position where someone can question the use of a mere logo.
2862
Rudy Vonk
Re: Re: Daily Mail & Hitchens
20/09/2006 17:50:00
On 20 sep 2006, at 17:43, Rudy Vonk wrote:
> On 20 sep 2006, at 17:23, George Jelliss wrote:
>
>> Surely he is being satirical? I certainly hope so! I think he's just
>> a columnist who likes to attract attention by saying outrageous
>> things to annoy the intellectuals at The Guardian.
>
> If that bit was satirical, I admit that I fell for it :-(
> However, is satire a safe bet, considering the Mail on Sunday's
> readership?
>
> I would be interested to see whatever prompted Marc Draco's original
> post on this subject.
I can safely shed my embarrassment. No satire whatever. I have just
been trawling Hitchens' blog on the Mail. The man is incapable of any
humour, let alone satire. Most of the entries are just political or
current affairs. His stance is roughly midway between Genghis Khan and
Vlad the Impaler.
But lo and behold - he is also an IDer. Have a look at:
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2006/03/what_are_archbi.html
Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored]
2863
oeditor
Re: Daily Mail & Hitchens
20/09/2006 18:42:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Rudy Vonk <rudy@...> wrote:
>
> But lo and behold - he is also an IDer. Have a look at:
>
> http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2006/03/what_are_archbi.html
>
His unevolved view of evolution is described in wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Hitchens#On_evolution
He echoes MacKay's "were you there?" argument. Pillock.
Brian
Who must emphasise that Peter's brother Christopher is a different
kettle of fish.
2864
Roger Stanyard
Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 19:02:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Jessica Skelton"
<jessskelton@...> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> (I get all my messages via a daily digest, so this may be hopelessly
> out of date)
>
> I actually have a fair amount of experience with graphic design,
plus
> it's what my brother-in-law does for a living. He's out of contact
at
> the moment, but might give us some pointers when he's back off
holidays.
>
> Some things that came to mind:
>
> 1) I think it's important to have the same logo for all media.
This
> will give the organisation a clear identity, which is vital.
>
> 2) *Don't* use too many colours. This way if any kind of bulk
media
> needs to be produced, it can be done at a commercial printer without
> costing an arm, leg and firstborn child.
>
> I'll have a go and see what I can knock up later.
>
> Cheers,
> Jess
>
Thanks Jessica
Roger
-- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "untheable" <anarch@> wrote:
> >
> > Might one of these be suitable for a logo?
> >
> > http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos
> > Album - logos.
> >
>
2865
Roger Stanyard
Re: Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 19:05:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Wankle Rotary-Pyjamas
<wankle_rotary_pyjamas@...> wrote:
>
> I think a previous post mentioned a DNA strand. I think that would be
highly appropriate for a campaign group pushing science.
>
> Phil.
>
> P.S. I also seem to remember some American company trying to patent
DNA..!!
>
Science Just Science has already used the double helix in its logo.
2866
Roger Stanyard
Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 19:04:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "George Jelliss" <gpjnow@...> wrote:
>
>.
>
> Perhaps we could adopt "Answers in Genes" as a slogan.
>
George, I love it!
Why not a double helix or galactic spiral as a logo? Or some symbolic
> combination of both?
>
2867
John Germain
RE: Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 19:35:00
Excellent idea!
John Germain
Jersey
British Channel Islands
-----Original Message-----
From: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com [BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Roger
Stanyard
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 7:04 PM
To: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BlackShadow] Re: Logo(s)
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "George Jelliss" <gpjnow@...> wrote:
>
>.
>
> Perhaps we could adopt "Answers in Genes" as a slogan.
>
George, I love it!
Why not a double helix or galactic spiral as a logo? Or some symbolic
> combination of both?
>
Yahoo! Groups Links
2868
Timothy Chase
Re: Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 20:35:00
On 20/09/06, Roger Stanyard <roger@dttconsulting.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Wankle Rotary-Pyjamas
>
> <wankle_rotary_pyjamas@...> wrote:
> >
> > I think a previous post mentioned a DNA strand. I think that would be
> highly appropriate for a campaign group pushing science.
> >
> > Phil.
> >
> > P.S. I also seem to remember some American company trying to patent
> DNA..!!
>
> Science Just Science has already used the double helix in its logo.
One possibility would be to do a kind of variation on the double helix
- not the tripple helix or anything like that - I wouldn't want anyone
worrying about cancer. But since BCSE is about kids and their
education, something made out of a toy to resemble the double helix
would seem a possibility.
For example, at my office, a friend has some magnetic balls and
colored spanners. I play with them on occasion - it helps clear the
mind. Moreover, I like five-fold symmetry, so for example, I have
done an icosahedron suspended within an icosahedron before.
(Icosahedrons are twenty-sided built from regular pentagons.)
In any case, if you stack icosahedrons just right with the right
colors, you can easily form a double helix. Black-background it, snap
a picture and there would be a unique logo fitting to the purpose of
this organisation.
Then again, I like the apples. Round, solid, creating the appearance
of something with some weight and strongly associated with both
education and science. The golden looks really good. Likewise, they
are something you can carry into a pub for the purpose of
identification - without their looking too out of place or falling
apart. Then if creationists start getting obnoxious, well...
I may prefer the apple - can't really say, but I thought I might as
well toss out the toy double helix idea.
2869
ukantic
Re: Daily Mail & Hitchens
20/09/2006 20:56:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "oeditor" <b-jordan@...> wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Marc Draco <midnight.diamond@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I may have missed this, but what's the deal with this Hitchens
dude at
> > the Mail? Is he a cretinist?
> >
> In a word, "yes". Have a look at http://tinyurl.com/eafd3
> What's he been up to now, then? I can't find any recent cretinism in
> the Mail on line (not that you can access all of his articles without
> paying).
>
> Brian
>
This is already in the photos section under Daily Mail; see also, More
Daily Mail. Once upon a time I had the idea of starting the, Great
British Wing Nut Award, which would have been awarded annually to the
most gormless creationist nonsense spouted by a journalist. Hitchens
was going to win the first first prize. I never went ahead with this
but if I had of done it would have looked something like this:
Alan.
2870
oeditor
Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 21:01:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote:
>
> Why not a double helix or galactic spiral as a logo? Or some symbolic
> > combination of both?
> >
Galactic spiral is brilliant - after all, our heavier elements all
came from an earlier generation of stars.
Out with your crayons/Photoshop folks! There must be a prize for the
best representation of gold and silver (not to mention carbon and
nitrogen) on a web logo.
Brian
2871
Mikey Brass
Watch the press
20/09/2006 21:08:00
A 3.3 mya A. afarensis juvenile was first uncovered in 2000, with the
remaining bones found over the course of 4 subsequent seasons. It has
been published in Nature.
Anyone wanting the pdfs, either join Paleoanthro or e-mail me offlist.
Expect PLENTY of bitching from creationists.
2872
ukantic
Re: Daily Mail & Hitchens
20/09/2006 21:18:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "ukantic" <alan@...> wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "oeditor" <b-jordan@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Marc Draco <midnight.diamond@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I may have missed this, but what's the deal with this Hitchens
> dude at
> > > the Mail? Is he a cretinist?
> > >
> > In a word, "yes". Have a look at http://tinyurl.com/eafd3
> > What's he been up to now, then? I can't find any recent cretinism in
> > the Mail on line (not that you can access all of his articles without
> > paying).
> >
> > Brian
> >
> This is already in the photos section under Daily Mail; see also, More
> Daily Mail. Once upon a time I had the idea of starting the, Great
> British Wing Nut Award, which would have been awarded annually to the
> most gormless creationist nonsense spouted by a journalist. Hitchens
> was going to win the first first prize. I never went ahead with this
> but if I had of done it would have looked something like this:
>
>
And of course that has nothing to do with me; so if there is anyone
out there thinking about suing me for every penny I have, just
remember: the last time I had a shave was when I found a used razor
whilst going through my neighbour's bin looking for something to eat
(that should see them off).
Alan.
2873
oeditor
Re: Watch the press
20/09/2006 23:45:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Mikey Brass <michael.brass@...> wrote:
>
> A 3.3 mya A. afarensis juvenile was first uncovered in 2000, with the
> remaining bones found over the course of 4 subsequent seasons. It has
> been published in Nature.
>
Ah, this would be "Scientists Hail Lucy's Daughter" on Al Jazeera,
singled out by Google News for pride of place. Unfortunately, it comes
up with "server too busy" - all those pious muslims keen to see where
they went wrong? http://tinyurl.com/zr8fj
To be fair, when the page comes up there's no hint of cretinism in the
article - unless you count the suggestion that the child died in a
flood ;-))
Brian
2874
Roger Stanyard
Re: Watch the press
21/09/2006 00:06:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "oeditor" <b-jordan@...> wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Mikey Brass <michael.brass@>
wrote:
> >
> > A 3.3 mya A. afarensis juvenile was first uncovered in 2000, with
the
> > remaining bones found over the course of 4 subsequent seasons. It
has
> > been published in Nature.
> >
> Ah, this would be "Scientists Hail Lucy's Daughter" on Al Jazeera,
> singled out by Google News for pride of place. Unfortunately, it
comes
> up with "server too busy" - all those pious muslims keen to see
where
> they went wrong? http://tinyurl.com/zr8fj
> To be fair, when the page comes up there's no hint of cretinism in
the
> article - unless you count the suggestion that the child died in a
> flood ;-))
>
Brian - Be careful about Al Jazeera. My business actually interviewed
the MD of the channel a few years ago. He was one of the good guys.
As where the rest of the staff - despite what Americans think of it.
It was basically a BBC off-shoot.
2875
Roger Stanyard
New Member, Paul Crosby
21/09/2006 10:29:00
We have yet another new member thi smorning, Paul Crosby.
Paul went to The King's Academy and has joined us after
recommendation from Stefan.
Welcome Paul.
Message to Paul: Yep, we are very interested in the experience of
students at Vardy schools.
In particular the extent to which creationism and fundamentalist
religion was forced on them and the religious views of specific
teachers - the Principal, Vice Principal, heads of Departments and so
on. And details of any "guest" speakers promoting fundamentalism and
creationism at the academy.
I have anecdotal evidence that about half the teachers are
fundamentalists. Does that agree with your experience?
We've put together some testimonies of former Vardy school students,
including Stefan, which can be found at
http://www.blackshadow.me.uk/index.php/Main/EmmanuelSchoolsFoundation2
If you want to provide an article of your own experience, it would be
warmly welcome.
Roger
2876
Marc Draco
Re: New Member, Paul Crosby
21/09/2006 12:17:00
Welcome Paul.
As your local contact, I look forward to meeting you sometime .
Everyone else: Yahoo is bouncing me AGAIN - 2nd time this week, so I'm
getting this online. <Shudders>. I really hate this system.
Marc
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote:
>
> We have yet another new member thi smorning, Paul Crosby.
>
> Paul went to The King's Academy and has joined us after
> recommendation from Stefan.
>
> Welcome Paul.
>
> Message to Paul: Yep, we are very interested in the experience of
> students at Vardy schools.
>
> In particular the extent to which creationism and fundamentalist
> religion was forced on them and the religious views of specific
> teachers - the Principal, Vice Principal, heads of Departments and so
> on. And details of any "guest" speakers promoting fundamentalism and
> creationism at the academy.
>
> I have anecdotal evidence that about half the teachers are
> fundamentalists. Does that agree with your experience?
>
> We've put together some testimonies of former Vardy school students,
> including Stefan, which can be found at
> http://www.blackshadow.me.uk/index.php/Main/EmmanuelSchoolsFoundation2
>
> If you want to provide an article of your own experience, it would be
> warmly welcome.
>
> Roger
>
2877
Roger Stanyard
Fundamentalist Teachers in Vardy Schools
21/09/2006 14:33:00
Call for advice and help.
I think it well worth the effort if we can demonstrate the extent to
which Vardy schools are infested with fundamentalist teachers.
The anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that up to about half are
fundamentalists if not creationists.
However, I cannot systematiclaly demonstrate that they are common in
the Vardy schools.
At the moment I have drawn up a list that is at
http://www.blackshadow.me.uk/index.php/Main/WhoIsWho/#Teachers
To say that it is thin would be an understatement.
It seems to me that ESF is using its position to:
1. Create a training ground for fundamentalist teachers.
2. Discriminate heavily in their favour in recruiting.
3. As a result, recruiting on religious opinion rather than ability,
4. And, as a result, breaching employment laws based on non-
discrimination (both on race and religious grounds).
It seems to me that if we can build up a picture showing that the
school's employment rules are sectarian (a dirty word on the mainland
of the UK, given Northern Ireland), we will have a powerful tool.
However, we must have firm evidence to pull this one off.
If we can just find the names of the teachers that are
fundamentalist/creationist, it is a big start. We found this with Ian
Brew - we not only have the evidence but also a host of connections
in the fundamentalist world (in Brew's case, we ended up with the
chaplain of Liverpool FC - the fundies seem to be everywhere!).
It would also be extremely interesting to know where the Vardy
schools are advertising for staff. If they are limiting advertising
to religious publications or relying heavily on them it is anecdotal
evidence that theiy are discriminating on the basis of religion.
As it stands, the anecdotal evidence suggests that they
systematically use their contacts in the fundamentalist world to
recruit creationist teachers.
I guess that the Vardy schools employ about 150 plus teachers between
them. That will rise to around 350 if Vrady gets his way and
establishes a total of seven schools.
That's a lot of "jobs for the boys" for his pals in the
fundamentalist movement. And a lot of power as well. You cn bet your
bottom dollar that many of the teachers will end up teaching in other
educational establishments as well.
This is all being done at taxpayers expense as well.
It seems to me that we face the prospect of hundreds and hundreds of
fundamentalist teachers in the state education system as a result of
Vardy schools, including those it is traing up as part of their
teaching qualifications.
Don't forget that Burn is also extremely well connected with the
teacher training system.
Finally, a very useful area of enquiry is the extent to which Vardy
teachers are receiving teaching material from fundamentalists -
notably Andy McIntosh and Truth in Science, and the Christian
Institute.
Any help on this would be highly appreciated.
Rod Liddle questioned a couple of former teachers from Vardy schools.
If anyone can trace them I am prepared to write to them and ask what
was going on.
Roger
2878
Dave Challender
Re: Fundamentalist Teachers in Vardy Schools
21/09/2006 18:02:00
On 9/21/06, Roger Stanyard <roger@dttconsulting.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> snip
>
>
> 1. Create a training ground for fundamentalist teachers.
> 2. Discriminate heavily in their favour in recruiting.
> 3. As a result, recruiting on religious opinion rather than ability,
> 4. And, as a result, breaching employment laws based on non-
> discrimination (both on race and religious grounds).
There was a get out on discrimination - somewhere with an "ethos based
on religion or belief" could be exempt from complying with aspects of
the Employment Equality Regulations Act.
No idea if that is still the case as not sure if 2003 act has been
replaced by newer stuff as IANAL...
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2003/20031660.htm
However, to use this escape they need to admit that faith ethos is a
fundamental requirement for their organisation.......
...And as I have just joined, hello to everyone on this list
--
Regards
Dave
2879
Roger Stanyard
Re: Fundamentalist Teachers in Vardy Schools
21/09/2006 19:01:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Challender"
<dave.challender@...> wrote:
>
> On 9/21/06, Roger Stanyard <roger@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > snip
> >
>
>
> >
> > 1. Create a training ground for fundamentalist teachers.
> > 2. Discriminate heavily in their favour in recruiting.
> > 3. As a result, recruiting on religious opinion rather than
ability,
> > 4. And, as a result, breaching employment laws based on non-
> > discrimination (both on race and religious grounds).
>
> There was a get out on discrimination - somewhere with an "ethos
based
> on religion or belief" could be exempt from complying with aspects
of
> the Employment Equality Regulations Act.
> No idea if that is still the case as not sure if 2003 act has been
> replaced by newer stuff as IANAL...
>
> http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2003/20031660.htm
>
> However, to use this escape they need to admit that faith ethos is a
> fundamental requirement for their organisation.......
>
>
> ...And as I have just joined, hello to everyone on this list
>
> --
> Regards
>
> Dave
Dave,
I think I am going to follow this up some time. Even if the Vardy
schools have found a loop hole, it still gives us ammunition in
fighting the establishment of further Vardy schools. Methinks
existing teachers must be aghast at the prospect of McQuoid (read
Burn) bringing in more of his pals. Presumably if fundamentalists are
preferred in the recruitment process the same also applies to
promotion (anecdotal evidence clearly suggests that this is the case -
existing teachers appear to have basically been fired because they
will not accept fundamentalist views in the classroom).
As it stands, the anecdotal evidence that I have (which still needs a
lot of research) suggests that the whole operation has picked some
lacklustre people largely based on their involvement in the
fundamentalist movement.
I've been digging around a bit over the last hour on some of the
teachers in the Vardy schools and it is desperately clear that the
whole game is about bringing fundamentalism and creationism into
every subject. So far I have the evidence for English lessons,
geography, mathematics and (possibly) music.
I have the evidence showing staff bragging on how to get round the
National Curriculum to promote their fundamentalism.
Thanks for the advice about employment law. We can follow that up
fairly quickly.
Roger
>
2880
ukantic
Re: Fundamentalist Teachers in Vardy Schools
21/09/2006 19:20:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...>
wrote:
> Any help on this would be highly appreciated.
>
Jonathan Winch, principal of Emmanuel College is definitely a hard-
core creationist. See:
http://education.guardian.co.uk/egweekly/story/0,,1682405,00.html
"And something else that is likely to stir the pot again and kick-
start an old row is an article in the latest addition of Christian
magazine Cross Way by the headteacher at the Emmanuel College in
Gateshead, which has long denied accusations that it teaches
creationism to its pupils. Jonathan Winch wrote: "Only with
reference to a Creator can absolute truth, absolute values and
absolute beauty be understood - and without these, education is
ultimately absolutely pointless." Just in case anyone missed the
point, he continued: "the ferment in which education finds
itself ... has risen slowly and terribly as the consequence of
atheism which has only relatively recently been given intellectual
credibility with the establishment of humanistic Darwinism as the
prevailing paradigm.""
There is a lot more like that.
I will think you will find that the percentage of staff with
creationist views or those views sympathetic to creationism will be
in proportion to the length of time that the creationists have had
control. This is because they have to take on the existing staff at
these schools (apart from the principals which are all creationists)
which then obviously take time to turn over. Then they have to find
a suitable replacement, which isn't that easy, but then thanks to
the present system of mixing religious belief & education, not
really that hard either. After all, there are already sectarian
teachers from schools that practice education on the basis of bias
of religious belief so all they have to do is recruit from the
appropriate section of this group.
Incidentally, there is also a geology teacher from King's Academy
whom I replied to here:
http://www.creationism.co.uk/index.php/Main/ResponseToTeacher
Any idea who that is Stefan?
Alan.
2881
George Jelliss
Re: Logo(s)
21/09/2006 19:26:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "George Jelliss" <gpjnow@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "George Jelliss" <gpjnow@>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Why not a double helix or galactic spiral as a logo?
> > Or some symbolic combination of both?
> >
>
> I've just put together this quick sketch. Someone with more artistic
> abilities may like to improve on it.
>
>
>
I forgot to point out that the design is based somewhat on the spiral
being a sort of monogram of the lower case letters bcse (with the e
perhaps being the wrong way round).
2882
ukantic
Re: Problems with website.
21/09/2006 19:42:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "ukantic" <alan@...> wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@>
wrote:
> >
> > --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "ukantic" <alan@> wrote:
>
> >
> > Thanks for the reminder. I like the idea of our own domain name
> > rather than a sub-domain. As it stands, I have not yet tried to
get a
> > lot of publicity for the web site. It seems to me that we must
have a
> > permanent domain name before we do this.
> >
> > Is anyone willing to go out and get us a permanent domain name.
I am
> > willing to contribute financially. I think we need to register
for at
> > least three years.
>
> One And One charge £2.00+VAT pa for a .co.uk on a 2 year min
contract
> (less than a fiver in total). Renewal is done automatically, so the
> only time anyone would have to do anything is if they wanted to
cancel it.
>
> I am with One And One & could purchase a .co.uk if required. Then
you
> could use my web space as you are doing at the moment.
>
> Alternately, they do a 15Gb per month hosting package for £5.86 per
> month that includes a free .co.uk domain.
Actually, I have just realised that this package hasn't got the
MySQL database necessary to run a forum like Ian highlighted.
Something worth keeping in mind.
Alan.
2883
bonytrux
Trinity Hair
21/09/2006 22:03:00
I believe all remainig pupils with unacceptable hair were back at
Trinity on 18th September.
My letter 'Does academy follow the rules' published in Yorkshire Post
on 19th. See
www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/viewarticle2.aspx?
SectionID=101&ArticleID=1775179
Cllr. Williams has written to Lord Adonis (Academies Minister)
demanding Ofsted or HMI investigation of Trinity's exclusions
2884
Roger Stanyard
New Member, Helen Woods
22/09/2006 09:45:00
Yet again I am pleased to announce a new member, Helen Woods from the
other side of the Pond.
Dr Woods is an extremely erudite anti-creationist and academic and she
has been busy recently debating with the nutters over at CED.
Welcome Helen.
Roger
2885
jon_12091
Re: Fundamentalist Teachers in Vardy Schools
22/09/2006 10:03:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote:
>
> Call for advice and help.
>
> I think it well worth the effort if we can demonstrate the extent to
> which Vardy schools are infested with fundamentalist teachers.
>
> The anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that up to about half are
> fundamentalists if not creationists.
>
> However, I cannot systematiclaly demonstrate that they are common in
> the Vardy schools.
>
We all know fundamentalist does not of course necessarily
mean 'creationist' stricto senso, however though anyone who adheres to
the concept bible inherincy to any extent is going to hold some
literal belife in genesis, though these views can be pretty variable.
Therefore I suspect that it may be easier to find teaching ideas, that
are drawn from the christian fundamentalist philosphy, in other
areas. One area which the UK has a notably poor record on is the sex
eductation and is known to be taught very variably (I'm unsure even if
theres a national required standard?). If they're pushing abstenance
at Vardy schools that could be even more damaging than teaching
creationism as this would be dicing with the future health of pupils.
I doubt they'd be bring in anything as obvious as the "silver-ring
thing", but I bet at the very least theres a strong undertone of
abstenance, married as the appropriate relationship status if you wish
to be sexual active, they may even risk a side swipe at inappropriate
practices & relationships, etc. Studies have show that abstenance
based programs when they 'fail' lead to a far greater risk of
unplanned pregnancy & sexually transmitted infections. The recent
resurgence of AIDs infection rates in certain African countries has
been placed at the door of the US administration preferring abstinence-
based programs over condom-based ones. The moral decay of society is
one of evangelical christianities biggest soap boxes (they ought to
get off that damn box and actually take a look at the society once in
a while!).
Therefore best evidence for fundamentalist beliefs will be in the tone
and quality of the schools "moral" and "societal" education programs.
2886
Mikey Brass
Re: New Member, Helen Woods
22/09/2006 10:06:00
Dr Woods, you name is vaguely familiar. May I ask which discipline?
--
Best, Mikey Brass
MA in Archaeology degree, University College London
"The Antiquity of Man" http://www.antiquityofman.com
Book: "The Antiquity of Man: Artifactual, fossil and gene records explored"
- !ke e: /xarra //ke
("Diverse people unite": Motto of the South African Coat of Arms, 2002)
2887
Roger Stanyard
Re: New Member, Helen Woods
22/09/2006 10:14:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Mikey Brass <michael.brass@...>
wrote:
>
> Dr Woods, you name is vaguely familiar. May I ask which discipline?
>
>
Mikey,
Helen's Yahoo ID is at http://360.yahoo.com/profile-
C2vkRMs5fqqROA9Y3_mViSMhjljbYg--
Roger
2888
Roger Stanyard
Re: New Member, Helen Woods
22/09/2006 10:17:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Mikey Brass <michael.brass@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Dr Woods, you name is vaguely familiar. May I ask which discipline?
> >
> >
> Mikey,
>
> Helen's Yahoo ID is at http://360.yahoo.com/profile-
> C2vkRMs5fqqROA9Y3_mViSMhjljbYg--
>
Sorry, should have given a Tiny URL:
http://tinyurl.com/rf78u
Roger
2889
Roger Stanyard
Re: Fundamentalist Teachers in Vardy Schools
22/09/2006 11:22:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "ukantic" <alan@...> wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@>
> wrote:
>
> > Any help on this would be highly appreciated.
> >
>
> Jonathan Winch, principal of Emmanuel College is definitely a hard-
> core creationist. See:
>
> http://education.guardian.co.uk/egweekly/story/0,,1682405,00.html
>
Thanks Alan.
It appears that all three of the Principals and all three of the Vice
Principals at the Vardy schools are creationist although I have not
yet completed my research on the latter.
The Vardy schools basically do not relese the names of heads of
dpeartments, let only ordinary teachers, at any of the three schools.
This is quite astonishing. All of the schools I have looked at in
connection with Mackay's visit to the UK give details of who is who
in their schools.
It seems that the Vardy schools are deliberatly keeping details out
of the public domain, presumably because they don't want people like
me or you or the press contacting staff directly (for obvious
reasons).
Moreover, it is also clear that the top positions are filled on the
principle of jobs for the boys. I've just found out who the Vice
Principla of Emmanuel Collge is (Gwyneth Evans), and she appears to
be a local fundie who had a strong connection with the Christian
Institute before she joined Emmanuel College as Vice Principal.
Can anyone let me know the names of the Vice Principals of Trinity
and King's?
It would also be extremely valuable if we knew the heads of science
departments of all three.
Roger
"And something else that is likely to stir the pot again and kick-
> start an old row is an article in the latest addition of Christian
> magazine Cross Way by the headteacher at the Emmanuel College in
> Gateshead, which has long denied accusations that it teaches
> creationism to its pupils. Jonathan Winch wrote: "Only with
> reference to a Creator can absolute truth, absolute values and
> absolute beauty be understood - and without these, education is
> ultimately absolutely pointless." Just in case anyone missed the
> point, he continued: "the ferment in which education finds
> itself ... has risen slowly and terribly as the consequence of
> atheism which has only relatively recently been given intellectual
> credibility with the establishment of humanistic Darwinism as the
> prevailing paradigm.""
>
> There is a lot more like that.
>
> I will think you will find that the percentage of staff with
> creationist views or those views sympathetic to creationism will be
> in proportion to the length of time that the creationists have had
> control. This is because they have to take on the existing staff at
> these schools (apart from the principals which are all
creationists)
> which then obviously take time to turn over. Then they have to find
> a suitable replacement, which isn't that easy, but then thanks to
> the present system of mixing religious belief & education, not
> really that hard either. After all, there are already sectarian
> teachers from schools that practice education on the basis of bias
> of religious belief so all they have to do is recruit from the
> appropriate section of this group.
>
> Incidentally, there is also a geology teacher from King's Academy
> whom I replied to here:
>
> http://www.creationism.co.uk/index.php/Main/ResponseToTeacher
>
> Any idea who that is Stefan?
>
> Alan.
>
2890
Roger Stanyard
Re: Fundamentalist Teachers in Vardy Schools
22/09/2006 12:15:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Challender"
<dave.challender@...> wrote:
>
> On 9/21/06, Roger Stanyard <roger@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > snip
> >
>
>
> >
> > 1. Create a training ground for fundamentalist teachers.
> > 2. Discriminate heavily in their favour in recruiting.
> > 3. As a result, recruiting on religious opinion rather than
ability,
> > 4. And, as a result, breaching employment laws based on non-
> > discrimination (both on race and religious grounds).
>
> There was a get out on discrimination - somewhere with an "ethos
based
> on religion or belief" could be exempt from complying with aspects
of
> the Employment Equality Regulations Act.
> No idea if that is still the case as not sure if 2003 act has been
> replaced by newer stuff as IANAL...
>
> http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2003/20031660.htm
>
> However, to use this escape they need to admit that faith ethos is a
> fundamental requirement for their organisation.......
>
>
Dave,
I still have to check this all about but I have come across the legal
agreement which establishes Trinity and it suggests that the school
is bound by the same laws that cover other organisations :
http://www.dfes.gov.uk/foischeme/_documents/DfES_FoI_123.pdf#search=%
22vice%20principal%20doncaster%20%22trinity%20academy%22%22>
Tiny URL : http://tinyurl.com/qvg2c
Roger
2891
Marc Draco
Re: Re: Logo(s)
22/09/2006 12:43:00
You could do an equation:
Creationism (C) = nonsense (N) * ignorance (I) squared... ;o)
C = IN2
But I doubt anyone would get it, sadly. I can try my designer friend, I
guess.
oeditor wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
> <BlackShadow%40yahoogroups.com>, Mikey Brass
> <michael.brass@...> wrote:
> >
> > Marc Draco wrote:
> >
> > > I would be worried that using an apple you fall foul of both Apple
> > > Computer and Apple Records.
> >
> > You would be right to be worried if an apple was used.
> >
> So it's not safe to use an Apple (not that I can really see why we'd
> want to) and we mustn't upset the xians by using a variant on the
> Darwinfish - so who can we upset? Well, the cretinists of course, but
> what symbol of cretinism is there to negate? All I can suggest is that
> we use some form of iodine, as a positive symbol - because cretinism
> in the medical sense is caused by iodine deficiency. But I suppose not
> a lot of people know that, and anyway cretinism is just an in-term. So
> not a lot of point to my musing - but I just can't think of anything
> else :-((
>
> Brian
>
>
2892
Roger Stanyard
Notes on Gary Weick
22/09/2006 13:35:00
Gary Wieck is the former Vice Principal of Emmanuel College and,
later, King's Academy. His current position is not known but is
believed to be Vice Principal of Trinity College.
There is no doubt that Wieck is a creationist. He is understood to be
a geography teacher. He is author of The Teaching of Geography : A
Biblical Perspective, published by the Christian Institute in 2001.
(ISBN 1 901086 15 1.
According to the Institute's publicity machine, Weick believes that
there is no such thing as neutrality in the classroom and believes
that most of what is found in geography textbooks is heavily
influenced by secular humanist philosophies. The book "shows the
responsibility of Christian teachers to present topics to students in
a way which acknowledges that we live in a created world which is
ordered by a loving Good."
The book is one of a number of small tomes of the same family
published by the Christian Institute in which what appear to be
fundamentalist teachers present theory case for brining their
religion into their subjects. Tomes include history, mathematics and
music.
It appears that they were part of an initiative of the Institute
targeted at teachers in general. They were published around the turn
of this decade. Moreover, a most of the authors were or became
teachers at Vardy schools.
Weick, like many a fundamentalist, is utterly unapologetic about
bringing his fundamentalism into the classroom, whether or not the
parents of the children agree with it or not. The Guardian (9th March
2002) reported him as saying in a lecture in 2001 - "As Christian
teachers it is essential that we are able to counter the anti-
creationist position... It must be our duty as Christian teachers to
counter these false doctrines with well-founded insights."
No mention, of course, that Weick does represent mainstream
Christians or Christian views, but that rarely seems to bother
fundamentalists.
Weick has also claimed that "There are Christian scientists who have
provided convincing scientific counter evidences of the
Evolutionist's position." (See
http://www.cloudsoup.com/weblog/2004/06/20/emmanuel-college-lying-for-
jesus.)
However, like other creationists at Vardy schools, Weick appears to
have been forced to keep his mouth shut since 2002.
Roger
Any further info on Weick would be appreciated.
2893
Roger Stanyard
More on those Vardy Fundamentalists
22/09/2006 14:26:00
I have just posted some stuff on Gary Wiecek - alas I spelled his
namw wrong. I think it is properly spelled Wiecek!
Here's another nutter detailed:
Gwyneth Evans
Gwyneth Evans is Vice Principal of Emmanuel College, one of the three
Vardy schools. It is a relatively recent appointed for the history
teacher who was previously head of history at Castle View
Comprehensive School in Sunderland. It is understood that she
succeeded Gary Wiecek as Vice Principal at Emmanuel College.
However, she appears to have been closely involved with the
educationists in the fundamentalist movement in North East England
before she joined Emmanuel College.
She is author of The Teaching of History : A Biblical Perspective,
The Christian Institute, 2001. (ISBN 1 901086 16 X) The booklet is
one of a number of small tomes of the same family published by the
Christian Institute in which what appear to be fundamentalist
teachers present theory case for brining their religion into their
subjects. Tomes include history, mathematics and music.
It appears that they were part of an initiative of the Institute
targeted at teachers in general. They were published around the turn
of this decade. Moreover, a most of the authors were or became
teachers at Vardy schools.
That Evans appears to be a hardline fundamentalism is confirmed by a
paper (currently in the site of the Christian Institute that she
presented (at Emmanuel College, surprise, surprise) in 2001. It can
be found at http://www.christian.org.uk/html-
publications/lectures.html it looks to be the same presentation that
was made into the Christian Institute's booklet.
To quote: "As Christians our ultimate, authoritative and inerrant
framework of reference is Scripture and we acknowledge that there are
absolute truths and values, which are God's overall purpose and
movement in history."
" In pursuing knowledge fallen man tries to relegate God, denying his
existence and regarding God's overarching plan as totally irrelevant
and even preposterous. Man sees himself as God and the source of
history. The Christian historian ought to examine evidence critically
and reach his judgement based on Biblical absolutes. "
"In practice how does a Christian historian differ in approach from
an unbeliever?"
"The historian who sees man as the source of history will always look
for the causes of events. His modus operandi is to trace cause and
effect."
"The Christian historian on the other hand knows that ultimately God
is the cause of all events."
This is the sort of religious absolutism that many educated middle
class parents find so total abhorrent. It flies straight in the face
of mainstream religion and looks like the product of the mentality of
the extremes of Northern Ireland.
Which isn't surprising. After the author made the above comment he
found that Gwyneth Evans comes from Northern Ireland. She studied at
both Middlesex University and the University of Newcastle upon Tyne.
At one stage taught History and Religious Education for four years at
Norham High School in North Tyneside.
2894
Roger Stanyard
More Vardy Senior Staff
22/09/2006 14:47:00
This one may well not be a fundamentalist:
"John Rhode is currently Vice Principal of King's Academy in
Middlesborough. He came to this Vardy school from Brackenhoe
Comprehensive School were he was Deputy Head. He succeeds Gary Wiecek
as Vice Principal. Brackenhoe was one of the two schools closed down
and replaced by King's. Richard Coupe, the original head of the Kings
Academy was demoted to vice-principal before walking out in 2003."
One wonders how long he will be in the job!
2895
Roger Stanyard
Yet More Vardy People
22/09/2006 15:21:00
!!! Paul Yeulett
Paul Yeulett is understood to be a senior assessment co-ordinator and
maths teacher at Emmanuel College, one of the three Vardy schools.
The Guardian reported on 9th March 2002 that he had said that
evolutionists have `'"a faith which is blind and vain by comparison
with the faith of the Christian... A Christian teacher of biology
will not (or should not) regard the theory of evolution as axiomatic,
but will oppose it while teaching it alongside creation."''
At the time Emmanuel College was receiving a lot of attention from
the national press about its teaching of creationism and comments
from teachers there were widely reported in the national newspapers
and other publications. The publicity, to put it mildly, was adverse
and, indeed, the government appears to have been forced to step in
and tell the Vardy people to get their act together (publicity wise,
at least).
One of the consequences is that teachers at Vardy schools have since
kept their mouths well and firmly shut about their religious
opinions. Yeulett appears to be amongst these..
Yeulett has even written a booklet on the subject of bringing his
religion into the mathematics classroom The Teaching of
Mathematics A Biblical Perspective. It was published by the
Christian Institute in 2000 (ISBN 1 901086 11 9)
The booklet is one of a number of small tomes of the same family
published by the Christian Institute in which what appear to be
fundamentalist teachers present their case for brining their religion
into their subjects. Tomes include history, mathematics and music.
It appears that they were part of an initiative of the Institute
targeted at teachers in general. They were published around the turn
of this decade. Moreover, most of the authors were or became teachers
at Vardy schools.
A summary of Yeulett's booklet can be found in a newsletter of the
Christian Institute at
http://www.christian.org.uk/pdfpublications/FiENewsletterISSUE3_WEB.pd
f#search=%22%20%22Gary%20Wiecek%22%22 (Tiny URL:
http://tinyurl.com/f6wp9).
Yeulett believes that God is the author of mathematics. Like a lot of
religious fundamentalists he has also got it in for . Apart from
that the article most seems to be nothing more than meaningless
rhetoric.
2896
ukantic
Re: Notes on Gary Weick
22/09/2006 15:38:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote:
>
> Gary Wieck is the former Vice Principal of Emmanuel College and,
> later, King's Academy. His current position is not known but is
> believed to be Vice Principal of Trinity College.
<snip>
Its statements like these that started alarm bells ringing for me when
I first become interested in this subject some three years ago. I
began by reading the articles at the Christian Institute web site
written by Burns, McQuoid etc & realised they were very similar to
statements being made by American fundamentalists. It was then that I
realised that the problem ran deeper than the ethos of a few schools
in the N.E of England.
These people give the impression of being almost at war with society.
The enemy is secular atheism, the school is the battleground, the
teacher the latest high-tech weapon & the child's mind the territory
to be conquered & reclaimed in the name of Christ.
Incidentally Roger, have you considered the school governors, whom
they (with the exception of one measly parents representative) select?
There is for example, David Holloway:
"In the mean time two things need to happen. First, we need to realize
what is going on. Then, secondly, like-minded people have to take
action in many small and little ways. That is how cultures are
affected. Revival starts and works church by church, Christian by
Christian. Schools change, school by school. Every opportunity must be
taken at work and at leisure for standing up for Christ, his gospel
and his standards. Never forget the importance of the "margins". Above
all pray that God's will is done in the General Election."
http://www.church.org.uk/resources/csdetail.asp?csdate=01/03/1997
Alan.
2897
jon_12091
Truth in Science
22/09/2006 17:11:00
TIS launched their shiny new website a couple of days ago, in case
anyone missed it (or dosen't browse Science, Just Science)....
http://www.truthinscience.org.uk/site/
Nothing new, just dragging out the same old tired creationist schtick,
but not exactly comforting that post-Dover they still think they can
get away with foisting it on the state education system.
2898
Timothy Chase
Re: Notes on Gary Weick
22/09/2006 17:05:00
On 22/09/06, Roger Stanyard <roger@dttconsulting.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> Gary Wieck is the former Vice Principal of Emmanuel College and,
> later, King's Academy. His current position is not known but is
> believed to be Vice Principal of Trinity College.
...
The quotes you cited are pretty damning - in essence, this fellow sees
every class as an opportunity for religious indoctrination.
Geography? There isn't much that they wouldn't twist to suite their
purposes. It is still widely thought that all these people are aiming
to do is simply oppose the mere "theory" of evolution, but with
examples like this, it should be much easier to illustrate the extent
to which they would transform education if given half the chance -
then, given their more politically-oriented statements, how they aim
to transform society as a whole. If I may put it bluntly, these
people are nuts, and nuts with ambitions like this are dangerous,
particularly when they get organised.
2899
Roger Stanyard
Re: Notes on Gary Weick
22/09/2006 17:27:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "ukantic" <alan@...> wrote:
>
>>
> Its statements like these that started alarm bells ringing for me
when
> I first become interested in this subject some three years ago. I
> began by reading the articles at the Christian Institute web site
> written by Burns, McQuoid etc & realised they were very similar to
> statements being made by American fundamentalists. It was then that
I
> realised that the problem ran deeper than the ethos of a few schools
> in the N.E of England.
>
> These people give the impression of being almost at war with
society.
> The enemy is secular atheism, the school is the battleground, the
> teacher the latest high-tech weapon & the child's mind the territory
> to be conquered & reclaimed in the name of Christ.
>
> Incidentally Roger, have you considered the school governors, whom
> they (with the exception of one measly parents representative)
select?
> There is for example, David Holloway:
>
> "In the mean time two things need to happen. First, we need to
realize
> what is going on. Then, secondly, like-minded people have to take
> action in many small and little ways. That is how cultures are
> affected. Revival starts and works church by church, Christian by
> Christian. Schools change, school by school. Every opportunity must
be
> taken at work and at leisure for standing up for Christ, his gospel
> and his standards. Never forget the importance of the "margins".
Above
> all pray that God's will is done in the General Election."
>
> http://www.church.org.uk/resources/csdetail.asp?csdate=01/03/1997
>
> Alan.
>
Alan,
Sometimes I could kick myself! It did not occur to me that Holloway
is a school governor of any of the ESF schools. It has also struck me
whether he is (or has been) governor of any non-Vardy schools or
teacher traing institutions which have been used as recruiting
grounds for Vardy people.
I have found that sort of lateral think about fundies, whilst it
leads to deadends sometimes, is invaluable in figuring out their
movement.
2900
Timothy Chase
Re: Re: Notes on Gary Weick
22/09/2006 17:35:00
On 22/09/06, ukantic <alan@blackshadow.me.uk> wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote:
> >
> > Gary Wieck is the former Vice Principal of Emmanuel College and,
> > later, King's Academy. His current position is not known but is
> > believed to be Vice Principal of Trinity College.
>
> <snip>
>
> Its statements like these that started alarm bells ringing for me when
> I first become interested in this subject some three years ago. I
> began by reading the articles at the Christian Institute web site
> written by Burns, McQuoid etc & realised they were very similar to
> statements being made by American fundamentalists. It was then that I
> realised that the problem ran deeper than the ethos of a few schools
> in the N.E of England.
With me, I had focused on philosophy and the ideologies of the past
which it had given rise to. Under Hitler, 11 million had been
exterminated. Under Stalin, the figure is 30 million. Under Mao Tse
Tung 60 million. So just under these three dictators, we are speaking
of over 100 million lives. And there were many more dictators in last
century responsible for many millions more killed. I had focused on
cults to some extent - how they indoctrinate their followers,
providing them with a single, all-encompassing framework with which to
approach the world and how they use this framework as a means of
control. Likewise, I realised that the next great threat would most
likely come out of either the New Age Movement or fundamentalist
camps. Since then, the New Age Movement has largely withered, but I
didn't expect the fundamentalists to be any major threat for some
time. Moreover, I had difficulty taking creationism seriously:
surely it was some sort of obscene joke.
That changed for me about two years ago. I had a co-worker, a highly
intelligent programmer. He suggested some material from the
intelligent design movement, wanted me to take it seriously as some
sort of alternative to real science. (From then on, I could never
look at him the same way.) That is what got me interested -- that and
a book by Frank Ryan which had introduced me to a few topics in
evolutionary biology and got me interested in virology to boot, albeit
at a popularised level. Then understanding aspects of evolutionary
biology became a major obsession as did understanding the nature of
the fundamentalist threat to education.
> These people give the impression of being almost at war with society.
> The enemy is secular atheism, the school is the battleground, the
> teacher the latest high-tech weapon & the child's mind the territory
> to be conquered & reclaimed in the name of Christ.
This is a very succinct way of putting it - and quite eloquent.
> Incidentally Roger, have you considered the school governors, whom
> they (with the exception of one measly parents representative) select?
> There is for example, David Holloway:
>
> "In the mean time two things need to happen. First, we need to realize
> what is going on. Then, secondly, like-minded people have to take
> action in many small and little ways. That is how cultures are
> affected. Revival starts and works church by church, Christian by
> Christian. Schools change, school by school. Every opportunity must be
> taken at work and at leisure for standing up for Christ, his gospel
> and his standards. Never forget the importance of the "margins". Above
> all pray that God's will is done in the General Election."
http://www.church.org.uk/resources/csdetail.asp?csdate=01/03/1997
This quote should also be quite helpful - in illustrating their
determination and the ideological nature of their approach, the manner
in which they view this as some sort of religious war.