2801
ukantic
Re: More UK Nutters?
17/09/2006 16:07:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "George Jelliss" <gpjnow@>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> > I couldn't find him on the "Who's Who in Creationism" page. But a
> > specific search for "Rosevear" led to the page you mention. I'm not
> > clear how this page is connected to the "Who's Who". Is there a lot
> of
> > other stuff there that can only be found by a specific search? I
> would
> > prefer to be able to browse all the pages.
> >
> Here are details of another nutter involved with Rosevear:
>
> Farid Abou Rahme
See:
http://groups.yahoo.comhttp://message/98
2802
Roger Stanyard
Re: More UK Nutters?
17/09/2006 17:38:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "ukantic" <alan@...> wrote:
>
>>
>
> See:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.comhttp://message/98
>
Thanks Alan - I've loaded the info onto our web site! It shows up the
man to be a Premiere League nutter. He's the sort of nutter I would
love to see in Debunkcreation. There would be blood all over the
place.
Message to George and everyone in the group - I have added a page
index which should make navigation easier. You can get to it by
clicking onto "more" in the main headings to your left on the opening
page of the wiki.
At the moment the list is alphabetically by first name where it
includes people.
2803
oeditor
Creation, the Internet and the Devil
17/09/2006 20:47:00
Wondering if there's any contradiction between the cretinists
mediaevalism and their use of modern technology, I came up with this:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/interne...ril/005252.html
I'm sure there must be people out there who actually believe this sort
of thing - can anyone provide any links please?
TIA
Brian
2804
oeditor
Natural History of/vs Cretins
18/09/2006 01:04:00
Up late, watching "Blue Planet" on UKTV History.
A while back, I posted a link relating to the cretinists. hatred of
David Attenborough (#1832). Since he's one of the world's best loved
scientists (even though he isn't a scientist), shouldn't we make more
of this?
Brian
Brian
2805
Roger Stanyard
Re: Natural History of/vs Cretins
18/09/2006 10:14:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "oeditor" <b-jordan@...> wrote:
>
> Up late, watching "Blue Planet" on UKTV History.
> A while back, I posted a link relating to the cretinists. hatred of
> David Attenborough (#1832). Since he's one of the world's best loved
> scientists (even though he isn't a scientist), shouldn't we make more
> of this?
>
> Brian
>
> Brian
>
Yep, great idea. Attenborough is a serious household name, very
respected and liked. If the creationists attack him, they looked mean
and ignorant in much of the publics's eyes.
I think as a starter, we need to put together evidence of their attacks
on him and them approach the man himself to see if we can get some
support from him, even if it is just moral support.
Me suspects that the poor bloke has been inundated with creationist
emails, literatute and attacks.
There is a commercial isue here. Attenborugh's programmes sell world
wide and the rights owners will not take kindly to fundamentalist
attacks on him and the findies' objectives to keep proper science off
the airwaves and from children.
I think that we probably have enough info to at least draft something
on McIntosh and his attitude towards Attenborough. It'll be thin but
will be a pointer.
Roger
2806
Marc Draco
Re: Natural History of/vs Cretins
18/09/2006 10:58:00
I think so, FWIW.
Attenbrough is an educator. Although he did once do a piece on the
"aquatic ape", so watch out for things like that.
oeditor wrote:
>
> Up late, watching "Blue Planet" on UKTV History.
> A while back, I posted a link relating to the cretinists. hatred of
> David Attenborough (#1832). Since he's one of the world's best loved
> scientists (even though he isn't a scientist), shouldn't we make more
> of this?
>
> Brian
>
> Brian
>
>
2807
Roger Stanyard
McIntosh out of his depth on science
18/09/2006 13:50:00
The Rev Michael Roberts has kindly given us permission to post an
article of his to out web site.
It pulls to pieces Andy McIntosh's understanding of geology and can be
found at http://www.blackshadow.me.uk/index.php/Main/AndyMcIntosh. It's
towards the end of the page.
I love that sort of ammunition. Sooner or later we are going to find
that the creationists start attacking us. It's pretty obvious that they
have been keeping an eye on us. It gives us something to show them up
for what they are.
Roger
2808
Roger Stanyard
More on McIntosh, Truth in Science and Take Heed Ministries
18/09/2006 13:52:00
Take Heed Ministries
Our basic information on Truth in Science came from the March 2004
newsletter of Takes Heed Ministries, run by an itinerant minister in
Northern Ireland, Cecil Andrews. The newsletter contained an article
on Truth in Science which appears to have largely been based on a
report in Evangelical Times, January 2004.
We took down the details in June 2006 and saved a copy of the html
page to disk (and still retain it, if anyone needs to look at it).
The details are shown on our page at Truth in Science.
Astonishingly, when we checked again in September 2006, the article
had been removed from the newsletter (which was still on Take Heed
Ministries' web site in cut back form). The size of the page had
fallen from 122 Kb to 113 Kb. (we also saved to disc the html page of
this doctored version – both versions can be viewed by members of the
Blackshadow forum or on request by email).
When we did the research in June 2006, we were unable to find the
article in Evangelical Times from which Andrews appears to have drawn
his information. It therefore looks as if Evangelical Times has also
doctored its online copy to remove reference to Truth in Science.
However, the original March 2004 article in Andrew's newsletter
appeared to us to have involved more than a rehash of the Evangelical
Times article as he offered his readers a private postal address for
Truth in Science which could only be had on application to him
personally.
It also seemed very strange to us that the only reference we could
find at the time to Truth in Science was a seriously obscure
newsletter of a one-man-band ministry in the backwaters of Northern
Ireland. Andrews appears to have no connection with the main
creationist groups in the UK. Our best guess is that the backers in
Truth in Science had a specific reason for promoting the organisation
in Andrews' newsletter.
Naturally we have written to Andrews to ask him why he made the
extraordinary decision to doctor a newsletter on his web site over
two years after it was originally posted there. Our guess is that the
people behind Truth in Science have become seriously concerned about
the activities of members of the Blackshadow group detailing the
creationist movement in the UK.
Andrews' reply has done nothing to dispel us of our speculation.
Here is the letter sent to Andrews:
To Cecil Andrews
Take Heed Ministries
7th September 2006
Takeheed@aol.com
I have been looking with at your interesting web site for some time
as I am concerned about the danger that some cults and sects pose to
children and young people. I think it is a very good idea to advise
them accordingly. Your web seems to have a lot to say about various
cults and sects and the dangers they pose.
However, I noticed some time ago in your March 2004 newsletter that
you made mention of an organisation called Truth in Science and
offered to give contact details.
However, when I checked back recently, the article on Truth in
Science appears to have been removed from the newsletter.
I was wondering why this is the case. Could you give me some advice
on this? Do you now consider Truth in Science to be a dangerous sect
and if so, is there any reason? Or is the organisation now defunct?
Yours Sincerely
Here is the prompt reply we received from Andrews:
Dear Mr ? Tyzack,
Thank you for your email and your kind words about our website.
As a ministry we are pleased when prudent to endorse and encourage
support for any faithful Christian ministry, including 'Truth in
Science' that upholds the truth of creation as outlined in God's
Word, the Bible. They are neither 'a dangerous sect' nor 'defunct'.
As to the article that was on our website the time-frame of
its 'appearance' and 'disappearance' was mutually agreed between our
2 organisations.
I am your servant for the Lord Jesus Christ
Cecil Andrews
'Take Heed' Ministries
Andrews thus confirms that Truth in Science is not defunct.
However, he also makes the astonishing claim that the appearance of
the article was conditional on an agreement with Truth in Science
that it should be displayed for somewhere between two years and three
months and two years and five months. The author of this report has
been a publisher of professional newsletters and has never ever heard
of such a strange arrangement with an organisation reported on. It is
a truly bizarre reply.
Take Heed Ministries' web site is at http://www.takeheed.co.uk. It is
duplicated at http://www.takeheed.net. It is clear than Andrews does
not like Catholicism (and is pretty outspoken about other
denominations and sects as well). Evangelical Times is closely
associated with the names behind Truth in Science
Truth in Science
It appears that Truth in Science has obtained funding and employs at
least one full time employee. The newsletter of Tinshill Church
(Tinshill Magazine No 226, Dec04/Jan05 – see
http://www.tinshill.f9.co.uk/226.pdf), where Andy Mcintosh worships,
states the following:
"Recently the group Truth in Science has appointed a full time worker
who starts in the New Year. The aim is to provide a resource for
teachers to enable design based alternatives to be taught in schools.
In a similar way to the Christian Institute, we wish to present a
clear alternative to the atheistic humanism rampant through most of
our schools today. The aim is to launch some time in the middle of
2005."
An Internet search on Juliet McIntosh has brought up a reference to a
creation-materials catalogue, supposedly at www.creationforall.org.uk
but the web site doesn't seem to have been set up. It was registered
to McIntosh in 2000 until 2008.
However it appears that Juliet and Andy McIntosh already have an
online bookstore, called Creation & Biblical Resources, with profits
from it going to unspecified "Creation ministries". Its web presence
can be found at http://www.dunelmsystems.co.uk/mcintosh/index.html.
There is a connection with the Christian Institute here. Dunelm
Systems is the private business of David Walton – see
http://www.dunelmsystems.co.uk. Walton has been involved in the
Institute for years and was a signatory to the 2002 Estelle Morris
letter. McIntosh was as well and he was spokesman for the 27
signatories.
Amongst the books on sale is Bomby: The Bombardier Beetle, by Hazel
Mae Rue. As you can see from the web page on Andy McIntosh, he has
more than a passing interest in the bombardier beetle. He has been
involved in researching it at Leeds University.
It also appears that Andy McIntosh has been involved in producing
other creationist material than books and articles. Take a look at
this reference for an Answers in Genesis DVD -
http://shop.gospelcom.net/epages/AIGUK.storefront/en/product/30-9-040.
This details a 2003 DVD by Andy McIntosh called "Genesis, Babel & the
Chinese Language". The advert states that "If the Tower of Babel
really took place, do we have any evidence today? Dr McIntosh reveals
some astonishing evidence that biblical events are recorded within
the written language of ancient China!"
The advert also states that it is aimed at "High School, College,
Adult" ages. Interesting the DVD is not advertised on Juliet and Andy
McIntosh's online book stop.
Juliet and Andy McIntoshs' names also appear jointly on a petition by
Christians to the House of Lords, protesting the Religious Hatred
Bill (see http://tinyurl.com/l4ofr) and there is an account of their
proselytising at the Edinburgh Festival in 2001 (see
http://www.evangelical-times.org/ETNews/Oct01/oct01n25.htm).
There is also a report of McIntosh cheekily giving "the annual Darwin
lecture on 'A designer world' at Darwin College, University of Kent,
in Canterbury". This can be found at http://www.evangelical-
times.org/Articles/June01/jun01a13.htm.
2809
Roger Stanyard
New Member, Jon
18/09/2006 15:03:00
We have a new member today, Jon, from over at the Science Just Science
forum where he has been a very regular poster.
Welcome Jon.
Roger
2810
Roger Stanyard
Some Notes on Ian Brew
18/09/2006 17:53:00
Here are some background notes on Ian Brew that a couple of us on the
Blackshadow forum have put together.
I'd like some further info on Brew before we post if anyone has
anything to hand.
Ian Brew is headteacher (Principal) at Trinity Academy, one of the
three Vardy schools. According to the Times Educational Supplement,
Brew is a creationist (see below for reference).
He is a graduate of Aberystwyth University and began teaching in 1997
at Highfield Comprehensive School in Liverpool. He taught history and
religious education. He subsequently taught at Broadgreen Community
Comprehensive school in Liverpool. In 1996 he had a complete change
of career direction, joining the commercial sector as business
manager for a Liverpool company that manufacturers communications
devices for PCs, Brainboxes. Brew then worked for six years for that
company before joining the Vardy schools as Vice Principle of
Emmanuel College and then Principal of Trinity in 2004, a year before
it opened.
Brew seems to have had connections with the fundamentalist movement
in Liverpool. Brainboxes (http://www.brainboxes.com) was founded by
Eamonn Walsh who is now chairman of it. By all accounts this is a
successful business. He graduated from Liverpool University with a
degree in Physics and a Masters in Electronics Engineering and
Electronics.
Eamonn Walsh is an elder of the Belvidere Road Church in Liverpool
(we can find not evidence yet that Ian Brew was connected with the
same church.).
This is independent Reformed Baptist church. It is also a serious
creationist organisation as can be seen by a sample of a video on its
web site at http://www.belvidere.org.uk/DVD.html. It's
called "Exclusive Truth in a World of Conspiracy". It's basically an
advert of the Belvidere Road Church that, amongst other things,
claims that science is utter rubbish. It's presenter is Pastor Ali
McLachlan of the same church (there are two pastors, the other being
Ian Higham).
However, there is another connection between Brainboxes and the same
church – the Managing Director of Brainboxes is Stephen Evans who
just happens to be a deacon of the church.
Just to make sure we have our facts right, we have checked
photographs of both Walsh and Evans on the Belvidere Churches web
site at http://www.belvidere.org.uk/staff.html and Brainboxes' site
at
http://www.brainboxes.com/content/newsresources/mainnews/article_4_254
.aspx
However, there appears to be another connection between the Belvidere
Road Church and the creationist movement,
Stuart Olyott (b. 1942) became pastor of Belvidere Road Church in
Liverpool after training at London Bible College and receiving his
first degree from the University of London. The Liverpool pastorates
occupied the periods 1967 to 1982 and 1991 to 1999. The intervening
years were spent preaching the gospel in French in Lausanne,
Switzerland, and pioneering new churches in both France and
Switzerland. He is currently listed as on the Council of Reference of
Biblical Creation Ministries alongside such luminaries as Andy
McIntosh, Stuart Burgess, David Rosevear, Edgar Andrews, David Watts
and Sylvia Baker – all signatories to the 2002 Estelle Morris letter.
(see http://www.biblicalcreation.org.uk/talks/BCM_ministries.htm.)
The full list also includes Bill Bygroves (Liverpool), Geoff Chapman
(Creation Resources Trust), Rev Martin Down (Ashill), Rev Philip H
Eveson (London Theological Seminary), Rev Graham Harrison (Newport),
Ranald Macaulay (Cambridge), Rev Jonathan Stephen (President of FIEC;
Reading), Dr Keith Stokes (Oxford) and Rev Geoff Thomas
(Aberystwyth). Bill Bygroves is believed to be Chaplain to Liverpool
Football Club. He is pastor of Bridge Chapel in Liverpool.
http://www.doncastertoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?
SectionID=766&ArticleID=759205 gives some background on Brew.
http://www.johnblanchard.org/newsline/NewslineMay04.pdf#search=%22%
20creation%20%22Belvidere%20Road%20Church%22%22 – shows
fundamentalist John Blanchard? speaking at the church.
http://www.rbc.org.nz/library/olyott.html shows Stuart Olyott was a
pastor there.
http://www.doncastertoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?
SectionID=2167&ArticleID=1130603%20 provides more information on Brew.
http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?
SectionID=55&ArticleID=1310802 – further reference about strict rules
at Trinity Academy.
http://www.creationism.co.uk/index.php/Main/CourierNov04ToJuly05 –
more background from the Blackshadow group.
http://www.tes.co.uk/section/story/?
story_id=2056951&window_type=print states that Brew is a creationist.
http://uk.msnusers.com/ThorneGrammarSchool/thetrinityacademy.msnw
shows a photograph of Brew.
2811
ukantic
Re: McIntosh out of his depth on science
18/09/2006 20:32:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote:
>
> The Rev Michael Roberts has kindly given us permission to post an
> article of his to out web site.
>
> It pulls to pieces Andy McIntosh's understanding of geology and can be
> found at http://www.blackshadow.me.uk/index.php/Main/AndyMcIntosh. It's
> towards the end of the page.
See:
http://www.blackshadow.me.uk/index.php/Main/AndyMcIntosh#rmb
I have already added the first of 3 sections on links to the section
on links. The second is going to explain linking to images & the third
will explain about anchors, one of which I have added to the above
URL. Essentially: think of a name for your anchor (I have used rmb) &
prefix it with #. Place that at the beginning of the area in the page
you wish to display placing around it as in . Now simply
append #rmb to the end of the url as above, or if linking to another
page within the wiki, add #rmb to end of pagename. As in:
pagename#anchor?. You can put brackets around the anchor name if
you do not want it displayed. I.e. pagename?.
Have also added a bit on the clip function to the editing page.
Basically, anything between
>>clip<<
&
>><<
gets highlighted within a lined border.
Alan.
2812
ukantic
Problems with website.
18/09/2006 21:29:00
The BS website is beginning to take shape now, but there are still a
few problems to be addressed.
The most obvious one is that the website, Black Shadow has nothing to
do with the BCSE. Although I suggested using BS because it was a
domain name I had free, there was never any intention for this to be a
permanent measure.
Somewhere along the line this problem needs to be sorted out. My
personal preference would be for BCSE.co.uk. .co.uk because it is the
most common & easily remembered TLD in the UK. Okay officially it's
for commercial use but there is no law that says you cannot use it for
anything you want.
That is already taken, so is the org.uk which is for organisations.
One solution would be change the name & hence the initials to one of a
free domain.
Another would be to keep Black Shadow as a general anticreationist
resource linked to a general wiki & create a sub domain off of it,
www.bcse.blackshadow.co.uk with the more specialised bcse material
stored here. A sub domain behaves no differently from a normal domain
& apart from the URL, a user is on a completely different website to
blackshadow. I could create this subdomain & copy the wiki & wiki BS
database over if anyone was interested in experimenting with this
idea. I am not sure how it would handle the internal URLs & it might
require some rewriting.
Then it needs a decent logo with BCSE in it.
Other points;
The sidebar links need sorting out. I placed lines between them
because the fact that some of the links exist on two lines was
confusing. This has improved the appearance but is still a bit iffy.
Ideally, each link should only take up one line & & then the dividing
lines can be removed.
For example: "Key issues in creationism" could be reduced to, "key
issues" & "The creationist Organisations, reduced to, "Creationist
groups", etc.
Finally, I find the sub headings a little overpowering; I think the
text needs to be smaller. Try red large text or something similar.
Alan.
2813
Roger Stanyard
New Member. Michael Roberts
18/09/2006 22:53:00
We have another new member today, the Rev Michael Roberts, our second
ordained minister.
Michael is one of the leading anti-creationists in the UK and was
instrumental in getting John Mackay kicked out of Millfield School.
He has already contributed to our web site.
Welcome Michael.
Roger
2814
Roger Stanyard
Re: McIntosh out of his depth on science
18/09/2006 23:11:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "ukantic" <alan@...> wrote:
>
Thanks Alan,
I've grasped nearly all of this and need to do a little testing over
the next day or so.
Roger
> I have already added the first of 3 sections on links to the section
> on links. The second is going to explain linking to images & the
third
> will explain about anchors, one of which I have added to the above
> URL. Essentially: think of a name for your anchor (I have used rmb)
&
> prefix it with #. Place that at the beginning of the area in the
page
> you wish to display placing around it as in . Now
simply
> append #rmb to the end of the url as above, or if linking to another
> page within the wiki, add #rmb to end of pagename. As in:
> pagename#anchor?. You can put brackets around the anchor name if
> you do not want it displayed. I.e. pagename?.
>
> Have also added a bit on the clip function to the editing page.
> Basically, anything between
>
> >>clip<<
> &
> >><<
>
> gets highlighted within a lined border.
>
> Alan.
>
2815
Michael Roberts
Re: New Member. Michael Roberts
18/09/2006 23:14:00
Roger
Thanks for the welcome.
Just one point, I was not responsible for stopping MacKay going into
Millfield. I had left a message for the head and when I rang back and spoke
to him he had already pulled out. The credit needs to go to reporters on the
local Blackpool papers.
Sorry but I am a pedant for details!
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stanyard" <roger@dttconsulting.fsnet.co.uk>
To: <BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 10:53 PM
Subject: [BlackShadow] New Member. Michael Roberts
> We have another new member today, the Rev Michael Roberts, our second
> ordained minister.
>
> Michael is one of the leading anti-creationists in the UK and was
> instrumental in getting John Mackay kicked out of Millfield School.
>
> He has already contributed to our web site.
>
> Welcome Michael.
>
> Roger
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
2816
Roger Stanyard
Re: Problems with website.
18/09/2006 23:12:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "ukantic" <alan@...> wrote:
>
> The BS website is beginning to take shape now, but there are still a
> few problems to be addressed.
>
Alan,
I'll start addressing these issue tomorrow.
Roger
2817
John Germain
RE: New Member. Michael Roberts
18/09/2006 23:20:00
Possibly not Millfield in Somerset?
John Germain
Jersey
British Channel Islands
-----Original Message-----
From: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com [BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Roger
Stanyard
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 10:54 PM
To: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BlackShadow] New Member. Michael Roberts
We have another new member today, the Rev Michael Roberts, our second
ordained minister.
Michael is one of the leading anti-creationists in the UK and was
instrumental in getting John Mackay kicked out of Millfield School.
He has already contributed to our web site.
Welcome Michael.
Roger
Yahoo! Groups Links
2818
Roger Stanyard
Re: New Member. Michael Roberts
18/09/2006 23:43:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "John Germain" <jtg.germainsjy@...>
wrote:
>
> Possibly not Millfield in Somerset?
I gather that's where you went to school John!
2819
Roger Stanyard
Re: New Member. Michael Roberts
18/09/2006 23:44:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Roberts"
<michael.andrea.r@...> wrote:
>
> Roger
>
> Thanks for the welcome.
>
> Just one point, I was not responsible for stopping MacKay going
into
> Millfield. I had left a message for the head and when I rang back
and spoke
> to him he had already pulled out. The credit needs to go to
reporters on the
> local Blackpool papers.
>
> Sorry but I am a pedant for details!
Oh no! And I have been telling everyone what a genius you are!
2820
John Germain
RE: Re: New Member. Michael Roberts
19/09/2006 00:02:00
One of 'em..
John Germain
Jersey
British Channel Islands
-----Original Message-----
From: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com [BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Roger
Stanyard
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 11:44 PM
To: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BlackShadow] Re: New Member. Michael Roberts
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "John Germain" <jtg.germainsjy@...>
wrote:
>
> Possibly not Millfield in Somerset?
I gather that's where you went to school John!
Yahoo! Groups Links
2821
Timothy Chase
Re: New Member. Michael Roberts
19/09/2006 07:04:00
On 18/09/06, Michael Roberts <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Roger
>
> Thanks for the welcome.
>
> Just one point, I was not responsible for stopping MacKay going into
> Millfield. I had left a message for the head and when I rang back and spoke
> to him he had already pulled out. The credit needs to go to reporters on the
> local Blackpool papers.
Good to have you aboard in any case.
> Sorry but I am a pedant for details!
That works for me - I will sometimes need reminding on that count. Or
do I? I sometimes forget...
2822
Michael Roberts
Re: New Member. Michael Roberts
19/09/2006 07:30:00
Millfield near Poulton in Blackpool. Not a Methodist school where a friend
taught
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Germain" <jtg.germainsjy@localdial.com>
To: <BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 11:20 PM
Subject: RE: [BlackShadow] New Member. Michael Roberts
> Possibly not Millfield in Somerset?
>
> John Germain
> Jersey
> British Channel Islands
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com [BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Roger
> Stanyard
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 10:54 PM
> To: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [BlackShadow] New Member. Michael Roberts
>
> We have another new member today, the Rev Michael Roberts, our second
> ordained minister.
>
> Michael is one of the leading anti-creationists in the UK and was
> instrumental in getting John Mackay kicked out of Millfield School.
>
> He has already contributed to our web site.
>
> Welcome Michael.
>
> Roger
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
2823
Roger Stanyard
Re: Problems with website.
19/09/2006 09:47:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "ukantic" <alan@...> wrote:
>
> The BS website is beginning to take shape now, but there are still a
> few problems to be addressed.
>
> The most obvious one is that the website, Black Shadow has nothing
to
> do with the BCSE. Although I suggested using BS because it was a
> domain name I had free, there was never any intention for this to
be a
> permanent measure.
>
> Somewhere along the line this problem needs to be sorted out. My
> personal preference would be for BCSE.co.uk. .co.uk because it is
the
> most common & easily remembered TLD in the UK. Okay officially it's
> for commercial use but there is no law that says you cannot use it
for
> anything you want.
>
> That is already taken, so is the org.uk which is for organisations.
>
> One solution would be change the name & hence the initials to one
of a
> free domain.
Thanks for the reminder. I like the idea of our own domain name
rather than a sub-domain. As it stands, I have not yet tried to get a
lot of publicity for the web site. It seems to me that we must have a
permanent domain name before we do this.
Is anyone willing to go out and get us a permanent domain name. I am
willing to contribute financially. I think we need to register for at
least three years.
>
> Another would be to keep Black Shadow as a general anticreationist
> resource linked to a general wiki & create a sub domain off of it,
> www.bcse.blackshadow.co.uk with the more specialised bcse material
> stored here. A sub domain behaves no differently from a normal
domain
> & apart from the URL, a user is on a completely different website to
> blackshadow. I could create this subdomain & copy the wiki & wiki BS
> database over if anyone was interested in experimenting with this
> idea. I am not sure how it would handle the internal URLs & it might
> require some rewriting.
I am uneasy with the sub-domain idea. What we need is an easy to
remember domain name which basically means the shorter the better.
>
> Then it needs a decent logo with BCSE in it.
>
We have had one submission of a half bitten apple but I dunno if we
can use it. What we need is something that is not in breach of
coppyright and we have a slight problem here if, as suggested a
couple of months back, we use an apple. I gather Apple Corp is very
hot on this.
Can anyone come up with a logo? I am out of my depth on graphics on
this and will need some guidance in actually posting it onto the wiki
> Other points;
>
> The sidebar links need sorting out. I placed lines between them
> because the fact that some of the links exist on two lines was
> confusing. This has improved the appearance but is still a bit iffy.
> Ideally, each link should only take up one line & & then the
dividing
> lines can be removed.
Will be done by about 2pm today.
>
> For example: "Key issues in creationism" could be reduced to, "key
> issues" & "The creationist Organisations, reduced to, "Creationist
> groups", etc.
>
> Finally, I find the sub headings a little overpowering; I think the
> text needs to be smaller. Try red large text or something similar.
>
I am not sure what you mean by sub-headings here Alan.
How do I alter the colours. At the moment we are using a mauve/brown
sort of colour.
Any comments from the rest of the group on how we can improve the web
site (both in terms of content and appearance) will be more than
apppreciated.
Roger
2824
untheable
Logo(s)
19/09/2006 10:21:00
Might one of these be suitable for a logo?
http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos
Album - logos.
2825
Roger Stanyard
Re: Logo(s)
19/09/2006 11:33:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "untheable" <anarch@...> wrote:
>
> Might one of these be suitable for a logo?
>
> http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos
> Album - logos.
>
Thanks JAF.
My thinking for a long time has been to use somethink that involves an
apple. The reason, which I think we discussed last month, is that the
apple is, sort of, a method of identifying ourselfs when we have to
meet up physically. The two Science Just Science meet ups in London
used the trick to identify ourselfs in a busy pub.
2826
JAF
Re: Re: Logo(s)
19/09/2006 12:29:00
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:33:01 -0000, you wrote:
>--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "untheable" <anarch@...> wrote:
>>
>> Might one of these be suitable for a logo?
>>
>> http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos
>> Album - logos.
>>
>Thanks JAF.
>
>My thinking for a long time has been to use somethink that involves an
>apple. The reason, which I think we discussed last month, is that the
>apple is, sort of, a method of identifying ourselfs when we have to
>meet up physically. The two Science Just Science meet ups in London
>used the trick to identify ourselfs in a busy pub.
>
OK
Then how about -
http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos/view/5acd?b=4
?
--
JAF
anarchatntlworldfullstopcom
2827
John Germain
RE: Re: Logo(s)
19/09/2006 12:10:00
You don't think that the Viking Helmets* and the cry of "death to Idiots" would
work,
then?
*in deference to L.F., sans Horns...
John Germain
Jersey
British Channel Islands
-----Original Message-----
From: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com [BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Roger
Stanyard
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:33 AM
To: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BlackShadow] Re: Logo(s)
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "untheable" <anarch@...> wrote:
>
> Might one of these be suitable for a logo?
>
> http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos
> Album - logos.
>
Thanks JAF.
My thinking for a long time has been to use somethink that involves an
apple. The reason, which I think we discussed last month, is that the
apple is, sort of, a method of identifying ourselfs when we have to
meet up physically. The two Science Just Science meet ups in London
used the trick to identify ourselfs in a busy pub.
Yahoo! Groups Links
2828
Roger Stanyard
New Member, Roy Thearle
19/09/2006 14:38:00
We have another new member today, Roy Thearle, who, IIRC, has been
active over at Science Just Science.
Welcome Roy.
Roger
2829
Roger Stanyard
Re: Logo(s)
19/09/2006 14:47:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, JAF <anarch@...> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:33:01 -0000, you wrote:
>
> >--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "untheable" <anarch@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Might one of these be suitable for a logo?
> >>
> >> http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos
> >> Album - logos.
> >>
> >Thanks JAF.
> >
> >My thinking for a long time has been to use somethink that
involves an
> >apple. The reason, which I think we discussed last month, is that
the
> >apple is, sort of, a method of identifying ourselfs when we have
to
> >meet up physically. The two Science Just Science meet ups in
London
> >used the trick to identify ourselfs in a busy pub.
> >
> OK
> Then how about -
> http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos/view/5acd?b=4
> ?
> --
> JAF
> anarchatntlworldfullstopcom
>
Thanks JAF.
I like that. What does everyone else think?
Roger
2830
Roger Stanyard
Re: Logo(s)
19/09/2006 14:49:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "John Germain" <jtg.germainsjy@...>
wrote:
>
> You don't think that the Viking Helmets* and the cry of "death to
Idiots" would work,
> then?
>
> *in deference to L.F., sans Horns...
>
OK, OK!! I'll think about running round Leicester Square waving my
chopper in the air (yes, I know, I've cracked this joke before).
2831
Roger Stanyard
Web Site Improvements
19/09/2006 14:46:00
Alan has given us a fair bit of useful advice on making our web site
look more professional.
I have made some changes to the style and any comments would be
appreciated so I can extend it throughout the site.
The home page at http://www.blackshadow.me.uk shows some changes in
teh subheading text size and colour. I have broken up the sections
with lines.
The page at http://www.blackshadow.me.uk/index.php/Main/WhoIsWho has
been modified to put some text in boxes; the point size of
subheadings has been reduced but the colour of them remains the same.
I have broken up the sections with lines.
The page at http://www.blackshadow.me.uk/index.php/Main/RoughGuide
has been likewise modified but without lines to breakup sections.
Comments would be seriously appreciated. This is the first time I
have ever put together a web site so I am still in a steep learning
curve,
Roger
2832
Marc Draco
Re: Re: Logo(s)
19/09/2006 16:59:00
I think it needs to be more "graphic" but the idea is excellent.
Early Christians use fish, IIRC. We should adopt something else.
George's Anti-creation logo (when he met Ken Dodd, sorry Ham) of the
ape->man->idiot was pretty cool.
Marc
Roger Stanyard wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
> <BlackShadow%40yahoogroups.com>, JAF <anarch@...> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:33:01 -0000, you wrote:
> >
> > >--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
> <BlackShadow%40yahoogroups.com>, "untheable" <anarch@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Might one of these be suitable for a logo?
> > >>
> > >> http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos
> <http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos>
> > >> Album - logos.
> > >>
> > >Thanks JAF.
> > >
> > >My thinking for a long time has been to use somethink that
> involves an
> > >apple. The reason, which I think we discussed last month, is that
> the
> > >apple is, sort of, a method of identifying ourselfs when we have
> to
> > >meet up physically. The two Science Just Science meet ups in
> London
> > >used the trick to identify ourselfs in a busy pub.
> > >
> > OK
> > Then how about -
> > http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos/view/5acd?b=4
> <http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos/view/5acd?b=4>
> > ?
> > --
> > JAF
> > anarchatntlworldfullstopcom
> >
> Thanks JAF.
>
> I like that. What does everyone else think?
>
> Roger
>
>
2833
Roger Stanyard
Re: Logo(s)
19/09/2006 17:47:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Marc Draco <midnight.diamond@...>
wrote:
>
> I think it needs to be more "graphic" but the idea is excellent.
>
> Early Christians use fish, IIRC.
Not a good idea! I'm not going to walk around carry a wet fish so that
other anti-creationists can identify me.
We should adopt something else.
> George's Anti-creation logo (when he met Ken Dodd, sorry Ham) of the
> ape->man->idiot was pretty cool.
George - what did your logo look like?
2834
Marc Draco
Re: Web Site Improvements
19/09/2006 21:20:00
Damn Roger, I wish my early attempts had been a fraction as good!
Use CSS (if you're not already) it'll save you tears in the long run!
2835
Michael Roberts
Re: Re: Logo(s)
19/09/2006 21:27:00
I would suggest that you chose nothing that can be religiously offensive,
hence my favourite the Darwin amphibian is unsuitable.
Sadly my wife would not allow me both the D - amphibian and an icthus fish
on the boot of our car.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Draco" <midnight.diamond@ntlworld.com>
To: <BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: [BlackShadow] Re: Logo(s)
>I think it needs to be more "graphic" but the idea is excellent.
>
> Early Christians use fish, IIRC. We should adopt something else.
> George's Anti-creation logo (when he met Ken Dodd, sorry Ham) of the
> ape->man->idiot was pretty cool.
>
> Marc
>
> Roger Stanyard wrote:
>>
>> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
>> <BlackShadow%40yahoogroups.com>, JAF <anarch@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:33:01 -0000, you wrote:
>> >
>> > >--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
>> <BlackShadow%40yahoogroups.com>, "untheable" <anarch@> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> Might one of these be suitable for a logo?
>> > >>
>> > >> http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos
>> <http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos>
>> > >> Album - logos.
>> > >>
>> > >Thanks JAF.
>> > >
>> > >My thinking for a long time has been to use somethink that
>> involves an
>> > >apple. The reason, which I think we discussed last month, is that
>> the
>> > >apple is, sort of, a method of identifying ourselfs when we have
>> to
>> > >meet up physically. The two Science Just Science meet ups in
>> London
>> > >used the trick to identify ourselfs in a busy pub.
>> > >
>> > OK
>> > Then how about -
>> > http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos/view/5acd?b=4
>> <http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos/view/5acd?b=4>
>> > ?
>> > --
>> > JAF
>> > anarchatntlworldfullstopcom
>> >
>> Thanks JAF.
>>
>> I like that. What does everyone else think?
>>
>> Roger
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
2836
ukantic
Re: Problems with website.
19/09/2006 22:47:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "ukantic" <alan@> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the reminder. I like the idea of our own domain name
> rather than a sub-domain. As it stands, I have not yet tried to get a
> lot of publicity for the web site. It seems to me that we must have a
> permanent domain name before we do this.
>
> Is anyone willing to go out and get us a permanent domain name. I am
> willing to contribute financially. I think we need to register for at
> least three years.
One And One charge £2.00+VAT pa for a .co.uk on a 2 year min contract
(less than a fiver in total). Renewal is done automatically, so the
only time anyone would have to do anything is if they wanted to cancel it.
I am with One And One & could purchase a .co.uk if required. Then you
could use my web space as you are doing at the moment.
Alternately, they do a 15Gb per month hosting package for £5.86 per
month that includes a free .co.uk domain.
>
> >
> > Another would be to keep Black Shadow as a general anticreationist
> > resource linked to a general wiki & create a sub domain off of it,
> > www.bcse.blackshadow.co.uk with the more specialised bcse material
> > stored here. A sub domain behaves no differently from a normal
> domain
> > & apart from the URL, a user is on a completely different website to
> > blackshadow. I could create this subdomain & copy the wiki & wiki BS
> > database over if anyone was interested in experimenting with this
> > idea. I am not sure how it would handle the internal URLs & it might
> > require some rewriting.
>
> I am uneasy with the sub-domain idea. What we need is an easy to
> remember domain name which basically means the shorter the better.
>
>
> >
> > Then it needs a decent logo with BCSE in it.
> >
> We have had one submission of a half bitten apple but I dunno if we
> can use it. What we need is something that is not in breach of
> coppyright and we have a slight problem here if, as suggested a
> couple of months back, we use an apple. I gather Apple Corp is very
> hot on this.
>
> Can anyone come up with a logo? I am out of my depth on graphics on
> this and will need some guidance in actually posting it onto the wiki
I have to do that by pointing the wiki config file at the location on
the net of the image, which is currently stored on my web space. You
can have access to this if required by giving me the URL of the image
if you do not want it to reside on my web space, I would then point
the wiki to it & the graphic can then be changed at will (rather than
giving me the image to upload) by overwriting the original file
wherever you have left it.
> > Other points;
> >
> > The sidebar links need sorting out. I placed lines between them
> > because the fact that some of the links exist on two lines was
> > confusing. This has improved the appearance but is still a bit iffy.
> > Ideally, each link should only take up one line & & then the
> dividing
> > lines can be removed.
>
> Will be done by about 2pm today.
> >
> > For example: "Key issues in creationism" could be reduced to, "key
> > issues" & "The creationist Organisations, reduced to, "Creationist
> > groups", etc.
> >
> > Finally, I find the sub headings a little overpowering; I think the
> > text needs to be smaller. Try red large text or something similar.
> >
> I am not sure what you mean by sub-headings here Alan.
I see you have sorted this out.
>
> How do I alter the colours. At the moment we are using a mauve/brown
> sort of colour.
Place for example at the beginning of text. Don't use capitals.
There is black, blue, darkblue etc. Or go to any painting program & go
to the ink mixer section & experiment with changing the colours.
Somewhere in it, a display showing numbers & letters up to f such as
00fe0c will be displayed representing the colour being shown at the
time, when it is the desired colour, put the associated number into
the markup code ex %065f6e%.
Alan
2837
Martin Young
Re: Logo(s)
19/09/2006 23:32:00
I've uploaded a quick effort of mine to the photos section of this
group in the "logos?" directory.
In general terms, I think a logo needs to be clearly printable on
cheap media (so no photos) and preferably be substantiallly unchanged
when rendered in black and white.
-Martin.
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Roberts"
<michael.andrea.r@...> wrote:
>
> I would suggest that you chose nothing that can be religiously
offensive,
> hence my favourite the Darwin amphibian is unsuitable.
>
> Sadly my wife would not allow me both the D - amphibian and an
icthus fish
> on the boot of our car.
>
> Michael
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marc Draco" <midnight.diamond@...>
> To: <BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [BlackShadow] Re: Logo(s)
>
>
> >I think it needs to be more "graphic" but the idea is excellent.
> >
> > Early Christians use fish, IIRC. We should adopt something else.
> > George's Anti-creation logo (when he met Ken Dodd, sorry Ham) of the
> > ape->man->idiot was pretty cool.
> >
> > Marc
> >
> > Roger Stanyard wrote:
> >>
> >> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
> >> <BlackShadow%40yahoogroups.com>, JAF <anarch@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:33:01 -0000, you wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
> >> <BlackShadow%40yahoogroups.com>, "untheable" <anarch@> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Might one of these be suitable for a logo?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos
> >> <http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos>
> >> > >> Album - logos.
> >> > >>
> >> > >Thanks JAF.
> >> > >
> >> > >My thinking for a long time has been to use somethink that
> >> involves an
> >> > >apple. The reason, which I think we discussed last month, is that
> >> the
> >> > >apple is, sort of, a method of identifying ourselfs when we have
> >> to
> >> > >meet up physically. The two Science Just Science meet ups in
> >> London
> >> > >used the trick to identify ourselfs in a busy pub.
> >> > >
> >> > OK
> >> > Then how about -
> >> > http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos/view/5acd?b=4
> >> <http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos/view/5acd?b=4>
> >> > ?
> >> > --
> >> > JAF
> >> > anarchatntlworldfullstopcom
> >> >
> >> Thanks JAF.
> >>
> >> I like that. What does everyone else think?
> >>
> >> Roger
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
2838
Marc Draco
Re: Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 00:17:00
I'm pretty sure you could see on Ham's blog. It was that famous
evolution of man from quadraped to biped - and then, after meeting a
cretin, back to a blithering, knuckle-dragging idiot.
Roger Stanyard wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
> <BlackShadow%40yahoogroups.com>, Marc Draco <midnight.diamond@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I think it needs to be more "graphic" but the idea is excellent.
> >
> > Early Christians use fish, IIRC.
>
> Not a good idea! I'm not going to walk around carry a wet fish so that
> other anti-creationists can identify me.
>
> We should adopt something else.
> > George's Anti-creation logo (when he met Ken Dodd, sorry Ham) of the
> > ape->man->idiot was pretty cool.
>
> George - what did your logo look like?
>
>
2839
Rudy Vonk
Re: Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 09:45:00
On 19 sep 2006, at 15:47, Roger Stanyard wrote:
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, JAF <anarch@...> wrote:
(snip)
> > Then how about -
> > http://ph.groups.yahoo.comhttp://photos/view/5acd?b=4
> > ?
> > --
> > JAF
> > anarchatntlworldfullstopcom
> >
> Thanks JAF.
>
> I like that. What does everyone else think?
I like it. The text would need a little anti-aliasing, and there
appears to be some artifact in the apple (possibly as a result of
placing the text, or of downsizing the original image), but that can
easily be put right if the original hi-res picture is available.
I would agree with Martin Young's comment if we were chiefly talking
about print media, but the website is the primary vehicle here, and we
should not sacrifice visual expression potential unnecessarily. The
photographic artwork will also look great on any material printed by
offset, digital press, colour copier, etc. (e.g. business cards,
leaflets). You can always have a simpler, stylized version for
letterheads and similar material.
cellpadding="2"
Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored]
2840
Roger Stanyard
Re: Problems with website.
20/09/2006 10:51:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "ukantic" <alan@...> wrote:
>
> One And One charge £2.00+VAT pa for a .co.uk on a 2 year min
contract
> (less than a fiver in total). Renewal is done automatically, so the
> only time anyone would have to do anything is if they wanted to
cancel it.
>
> I am with One And One & could purchase a .co.uk if required. Then
you
> could use my web space as you are doing at the moment.
>
Me thinks this is the best option. It would cost us about £180-£200
to buy three years of a hosting package. That's dosh that could be
better spent on other things such as leaflets (or financing what Ian
has proposed). Alan, can you carry the cost of this? If not, I'll pop
a small cheque in the post.
I'm happy to go this route so, as far as I am concerend, go eahd with
it. If anyone has any objections let us know.
> Alternately, they do a 15Gb per month hosting package for £5.86 per
> month that includes a free .co.uk domain.
At the moment there are no graphics on the wiki (except the logo). I
duuno how much web site it takes up but from my position, most of the
info that I wanted to put on it is already there so it isn't going to
grow very rapidly.
As an aside, if we get a new domain name, do we have to open a new
wiki and cut and past the entire contents of the present one over to
it?
>
on
> the net of the image, which is currently stored on my web space. You
> can have access to this if required by giving me the URL of the
image
> if you do not want it to reside on my web space, I would then point
> the wiki to it & the graphic can then be changed at will (rather
than
> giving me the image to upload) by overwriting the original file
> wherever you have left it.
>
The image will probably have to reside on your web site. At the
moment there are two potential logos on the photos page of our Yahoo
group but I think we have to plan for the eventuality of closing the
Yahoo group down as and when we move to the arrangements suggested by
Ian.
At the moment we are having a bit of a debate about which logo to
choose so I guess we will need to wait a few days before this is done.
> > > Other points;
> > >
> >
> > How do I alter the colours. At the moment we are using a
mauve/brown
> > sort of colour.
>
> Place for example at the beginning of text. Don't use
capitals.
> There is black, blue, darkblue etc. Or go to any painting program &
go
> to the ink mixer section & experiment with changing the colours.
> Somewhere in it, a display showing numbers & letters up to f such as
> 00fe0c will be displayed representing the colour being shown at the
> time, when it is the desired colour, put the associated number into
> the markup code ex %065f6e%.
>
I've grasped this but there is a small problem. I can change all of
the subheading text but not the colour of the main page heading which
remains brown. Any ideas how to handle this?
Does everyone agree with the Magneta colour for the subheadings? I
found red far too glaring.
Roger
2841
Roger Stanyard
Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 10:53:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Young" <martin@...> wrote:
>
> I've uploaded a quick effort of mine to the photos section of this
> group in the "logos?" directory.
>
> In general terms, I think a logo needs to be clearly printable on
> cheap media (so no photos) and preferably be substantiallly
unchanged
> when rendered in black and white.
>
> -Martin.
>
Thanks Martin. I like the bright, clear image you have uploaded. It's
memorably, implies scientific reason and stands out.
What is everybody else's view on it?
Roger
2842
Rudy Vonk
Re: Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 11:04:00
On 20 sep 2006, at 11:53, Roger Stanyard wrote:
> Thanks Martin. I like the bright, clear image you have uploaded. It's
> memorably, implies scientific reason and stands out.
>
> What is everybody else's view on it?
It is neat, but what is the symbolism of the eye-patch? :-)
I still prefer the apple, but I don't mind either.
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Marc Draco
Re: Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 11:17:00
I didn't get it. But that's the case with many logos until you KNOW what
they mean.
Does anyone have a list of really famous classic/logos so we can compare
how the big boys do it?
I would be worried that using an apple you fall foul of both Apple
Computer and Apple Records.
Roger Stanyard wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
> <BlackShadow%40yahoogroups.com>, "Martin Young" <martin@...> wrote:
> >
> > I've uploaded a quick effort of mine to the photos section of this
> > group in the "logos?" directory.
> >
> > In general terms, I think a logo needs to be clearly printable on
> > cheap media (so no photos) and preferably be substantiallly
> unchanged
> > when rendered in black and white.
> >
> > -Martin.
> >
>
> Thanks Martin. I like the bright, clear image you have uploaded. It's
> memorably, implies scientific reason and stands out.
>
> What is everybody else's view on it?
>
> Roger
>
>
2844
Marc Draco
Daily Mail & Hitchens
20/09/2006 11:21:00
I may have missed this, but what's the deal with this Hitchens dude at
the Mail? Is he a cretinist?
2845
oeditor
Re: Daily Mail & Hitchens
20/09/2006 12:35:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Marc Draco <midnight.diamond@...>
wrote:
>
> I may have missed this, but what's the deal with this Hitchens dude at
> the Mail? Is he a cretinist?
>
In a word, "yes". Have a look at http://tinyurl.com/eafd3
What's he been up to now, then? I can't find any recent cretinism in
the Mail on line (not that you can access all of his articles without
paying).
Brian
2846
Mikey Brass
Re: Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 14:45:00
Marc Draco wrote:
> I would be worried that using an apple you fall foul of both Apple
> Computer and Apple Records.
You would be right to be worried if an apple was used.
2847
Roger Stanyard
New Member, Dave Challender
20/09/2006 15:01:00
We have another new member today, Dave Challender, who is undergoing
his teaching training qualifications and is concerned about creationism
in the classroom.
Welcome Dave.
Roger
2848
Martin Young
Re: Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 16:07:00
Is that a professional opinion Mikey, or based on case knowledge?
IANAL but IFAIK Apple have no recourse against the use of an Apple in a
logo provided: it's not substantially similar to their unique Apple
symbol (by shape, with byte out, leaf on top, maybe stripy); it's not
used in connection to Apple's activities (e.g. selling computers and
related services).
The BCSE and it's aims do not fall foul of the the latter caveat and the
use of a generic apple image (excluding Apple's apple) would be be
affected by the former.
IMO.
Common sense says it's okay, else surely no double glazing company would
be able to have a window in its logo for fear of being squished by
Microsoft.
I've no particular desire to see the BCSE use an apple-y logo but not
doing so because of Apple Computer is simply silly.
On Wed, 2006-09-20 at 14:45 +0100, Mikey Brass wrote:
> Marc Draco wrote:
>
> > I would be worried that using an apple you fall foul of both Apple
> > Computer and Apple Records.
>
> You would be right to be worried if an apple was used.
2849
Rudy Vonk
Re: Re: Daily Mail & Hitchens
20/09/2006 15:13:00
On 20 sep 2006, at 13:35, oeditor wrote:
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Marc Draco <midnight.diamond@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I may have missed this, but what's the deal with this Hitchens dude
> at
> > the Mail? Is he a cretinist?
> >
> In a word, "yes". Have a look at http://tinyurl.com/eafd3
Good grief! This man is more viciously fanatical and ignorant than
almost all the other nutters put together! He wants biology transferred
to religion class, but expresses no alternative regarding what he
believes should be taught in science classes. He probably doesn't want
science to be taught at all. Considering the Mail's circulation, this
man is very dangerous...
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Rudy Vonk
Re: Re: Logo(s)
20/09/2006 15:27:00
On 20 sep 2006, at 15:45, Mikey Brass wrote:
> You would be right to be worried if an apple was used.
Aren't we getting "paranoid beyond our station", so to speak?
The apple itself can never be a bone of contention. Nobody can claim
the intellectual property of something that hangs abundantly on every
tree here. Only what you do with it may become an issue. You'll find
scores of other apple-based logos and publicity.
I don't think Apple Computer or Apple Studios are ever going to see the
BCSE logo. When they finally do, they are not going to fume with rage
because we have used an apple.
I do not recall Shell trooping out the lawyers to stamp out the "Camino
the Santiago" symbol, either. Scallops are also in the public domain
:-)
Let's keep ourselves in perspective...
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