Creationism - Main - 2451 To 2500

2451
Marc Draco
Re: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 23:22:00

I agree with have priorities, but the problem with Yahoo belching
messages when it feels like it is that it's easy to loose track.

This has to be a priority for us.

Roger Stanyard wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
> <BlackShadow%40yahoogroups.com>, Marc Draco <midnight.diamond@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I'm with Stefan. Who knows when this message will reach him though -
> it
> > would be faster to crawl over the road and write it in blood the way
> > yahoo is going...
> >
> > I really favour leaving this arena and moving to a proper BBS.
> >
>
> Yep, couldn't agree with you more but don't you think there are higher
> priorities at present?
>
>

2452
vulcannuk
Interesting video
29/08/2006 23:41:00

Hi,

Just been on youtube.com . Take a look at this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffX9msPCwZk

Wouldn't it be great to find a network that would actually advertise
that!

2453
Marc Draco
Re: Interesting video
29/08/2006 23:48:00

The comments from "the faithful" are hilarious too!

vulcannuk wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Just been on youtube.com . Take a look at this video:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffX9msPCwZk
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffX9msPCwZk>
>
> Wouldn't it be great to find a network that would actually advertise
> that!
>
>

2454
Lenny Flank
Re: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 23:36:00

> I'm thinking of creating our own organization thats organized at a
> local level. I just can't see us making any impact in our current
> circumstances. We need to get organized and bring this arguement to
> joe public. Otherwise we're just banging our heads against a cyber
> wall while people like Vardy and co are spreading.

Well, I don't care what organizational name anyone uses, or even if
they use any at all.

But any time some creationut speaks in public anywhere, there should
be a welcoming committee passing out leaflets at the front gate.

Talk is cheap. Action is not. But it's the action that gets things
done, not the talk.

===================================
Lenny Flank
"There are no loose threads in the web of life"

Creation "Science" Debunked
http://www.geocities.com/lflank

My Reptile Page
http://www.geocities.com/lflank/herp.html

2455
Roger Stanyard
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
30/08/2006 07:22:00

--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny Flank" <lflank@...> wrote:
>
> > I'm thinking of creating our own organization thats organized at a
> > local level. I just can't see us making any impact in our current
> > circumstances. We need to get organized and bring this arguement
to
> > joe public. Otherwise we're just banging our heads against a cyber
> > wall while people like Vardy and co are spreading.
>
>
> Well, I don't care what organizational name anyone uses, or even if
> they use any at all.
>
> But any time some creationut speaks in public anywhere, there
should
> be a welcoming committee passing out leaflets at the front gate.
>
> Talk is cheap. Action is not. But it's the action that gets things
> done, not the talk.
>

And everyone is reminded that there is a welcoming committee for Ken
Ham this Friday organised by George. I'll be there.

Roger

>
>
>
>
> ===================================
> Lenny Flank
> "There are no loose threads in the web of life"
>
> Creation "Science" Debunked
> http://www.geocities.com/lflank
>
> My Reptile Page
> http://www.geocities.com/lflank/herp.html
>

2456
Roger Stanyard
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
30/08/2006 09:12:00

--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "oeditor" <b-jordan@...> wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@> wrote:
>
> > Yep, couldn't agree with you more but don't you think there are
higher
> > priorities at present?
>
> Yes - setting up a private group where our deiberations aren't
> undertaken beneath the spotlights of watching cretinists.
>
> Brian
>

Now we have a web site up and running and basically complete, it's
time to reconsider whether this group is open for outsiders to peruse.

Alan has offered an alternative that we can use as a closed group but
I am reluctant to manage two groups at the same time.

It seems to me that now we have an advertisement for the group in the
form of the web site (which has a lot of data on it now), the need
for this group as an advertisement is no no longer that important.

Moreover, in its open form, it is probably a bit of a a liability.
I'm worried that my own blog has been attacked by the fundies. It is
now nearly impossible to use. Messages posted to it come up as blank
pages and it is almost impossible to open the postings mafe by me
vefore 2nd July.

That's my problem but it does appear that the fundies are looking at
us carefully and are not idle - see the Andy Shill post for example.

I think that this issue should be decided by a simple poll.

Any comments before I open the poll?

Roger

2457
Roger Stanyard
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
30/08/2006 09:18:00

--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Marc Draco <midnight.diamond@...>
wrote:
>
> I agree with have priorities, but the problem with Yahoo belching
> messages when it feels like it is that it's easy to loose track.
>
> This has to be a priority for us.
>

I must admit that I am pissed off with Yahoo and we need to move on
(what's happening to my blog is worrying.).

However, in the meanwhile we have a couple of measures that can
alleviate the problem of accessng past posts.

I'll be posting some of Stefan's info from the last day or so to our
web site so that it is properly on record.

The other alternative is to make use of the No to Academies web site
for specific stuff on the Vardy academies. What do you think?

All comments welcome.

Roger

.

2458
Roger Stanyard
Re: Interesting video
30/08/2006 09:25:00

--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "vulcannuk" <vulcannuk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Just been on youtube.com . Take a look at this video:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffX9msPCwZk
>
> Wouldn't it be great to find a network that would actually advertise
> that!

Stefan, I can only view about 8 seconds of this video and then it
stops. It say that the video runs for over two minutes. Any idea what I
am doing wrong?

Interestingly the page refers to a video about (or from) the Hillsong
Church.

That's a powerful bunch of pentecostal fundies in Sydney in Australia.
There are a lot of questions being asked about its secret finances and
the lifestyles of the people that control it. They also, basically,
have their own political party.

There is an article on my blog about it.

Hillsong has opened up a branch in London that we need to keep an eye
on.

Roger

2459
Roger Stanyard
Day One
30/08/2006 09:37:00

I did a bit of brief research over the bank holiday on one of the
signatories to the Estelle Morris letter - Nigel Robinson.

I'll have to check further but it appears that he is actually not an
academic as claimed but a Baptist minister. He now appears to have
taken early retirement and is heading up a ministry that is aimed at
the prison population.

(there is stuff on the web site about him, btw. Click onto Estelle
Morris and his name is on the list of signatories. Click onto that
will bring up details).

However, the matter looks to be worse that I thought. His
overall "boss" is one of the names involved in Truth in Science which
looks to be the most hard-core of the creatinist groups in the UK.
Those associated with it look like a rougues gallery of leading
creationist activists - Burgess, McIntosh et al.

It also now appears that the prison ministry is actually a spin off
from Day One which is the renamed Lord's Day Observance Society. As I
have pointed out befor, this outfit looks to have been infiltrated
with creationist fundies. From what I now see, it is extending its
remit well beyond keeping Sunday as a religious day.

A cynic may well conclude that it is now recruiting criminals to the
fundie cause.

I'll be adding furher details to out web site later today.

As a lot of you may know, Fay One Publications, which is the
publishing arm, is really into publishing creationist crapola and has
been for a long time.

Roger

2460
Roger Stanyard
Emmanuel Schools Trust
30/08/2006 10:14:00

I've added Stefan's info on creationism In King's to the web site under
Emmanuel Schools Trust. see
http://www.blackshadow.me.uk/index.php/Main/EmmanuelSchoolsFoundation

I think that we need to get as much info as we can on this.

I have a quick uestion for Stefan (perhaps Marc can answer it) - What
does PTE stand for?

If anyone wants to edit or add to the info directly, let me know and I
will email the keys and simple instructions to use the Wiki. It's dead
easy.

Roger

2461
Ian Lowe
RE: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
30/08/2006 10:11:00

> The other alternative is to make use of the No to Academies web site
for specific stuff on the Vardy academies. What do you think?

Best to keep it distinct, I would say.

I will provide assistance (if desired) to provide an integrated mailing
list/forum, and can do this on an existing server (such as blackshadow) or,
if that's not okay,

If it's required, I can provide hosting space for it on the same server as
the SAC website (it would be completely distinct), although I would prefer
not to do so (potential conflict of interest)

I.

2462
Mikey Brass
Re: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
30/08/2006 11:09:00

Roger Stanyard wrote:

> Moreover, in its open form, it is probably a bit of a a liability.
> I'm worried that my own blog has been attacked by the fundies. It is
> now nearly impossible to use. Messages posted to it come up as blank
> pages and it is almost impossible to open the postings mafe by me
> vefore 2nd July.

Which browsers have you tested your blog with and have enough people, on
different machines, verified?

2463
Marc Draco
Found on Viewtube
30/08/2006 11:45:00

No all Americans are blithering idiots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2SVMKZhV2g&NR

The problem with faith is that the will look at this and dismiss it as a
trick. Which it isn't! Sad.

2464
oeditor
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
30/08/2006 11:53:00

--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Mikey Brass <michael.brass@...> wrote:
>
> Which browsers have you tested your blog with and have enough
people, on
> different machines, verified?
It must be a Yahoo thing. I tried it (with Firefox)twice about an hour
ago and couldn't get beyond the first page (July 26). Now, with
patience, I've been able to go all the way back to the beginning.

Brian

2465
Mikey Brass
Re: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
30/08/2006 12:09:00

oeditor wrote:
> It must be a Yahoo thing.

Agreed. I do not think it is because of hacking, although Yahoo's
servers do get hacked fairly regularly.

2466
Marc Draco
Re: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
30/08/2006 13:13:00

Either way, we need a reliable system that deals with emails in the
correct Chrono order and doesn't spit them out when it feels like it.
SOON. This should be a closed list to arrange stuff in peace without
interference from arrogant idiots who hide behind science degrees.

Marc

Ian Lowe wrote:
>
> > The other alternative is to make use of the No to Academies web site
> for specific stuff on the Vardy academies. What do you think?
>
> Best to keep it distinct, I would say.
>
> I will provide assistance (if desired) to provide an integrated mailing
> list/forum, and can do this on an existing server (such as
> blackshadow) or,
> if that's not okay,
>
> If it's required, I can provide hosting space for it on the same server as
> the SAC website (it would be completely distinct), although I would prefer
> not to do so (potential conflict of interest)
>
> I.
>
>

2467
Roger Stanyard
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
30/08/2006 16:45:00

--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Mikey Brass <michael.brass@...>
wrote:
>
> Roger Stanyard wrote:
>
> > Moreover, in its open form, it is probably a bit of a a
liability.
> > I'm worried that my own blog has been attacked by the fundies. It
is
> > now nearly impossible to use. Messages posted to it come up as
blank
> > pages and it is almost impossible to open the postings mafe by me
> > vefore 2nd July.
>
> Which browsers have you tested your blog with and have enough
people, on
> different machines, verified?
>
The broweser is IE which I have been using for 2 years and I used to
set up and manage the blogg.

If anyone in the group would like to se if they have having problems
using it, the address is at http://blog.360.yahoo.com/stanyardroger.

Using it has been getting progressively worse. I first notice a
problem with two replies to an August 11th article on the SPKN
bookshop. All I got when I tried to open them was a black page
message.

Around the same time, I was largely unable to acess anything older
than 2nd July.

However, this afternoon it had largely collapsed. The section that
gives access to other yahoo groups I am a member of had been wiped
clean and the blog itself took six or seven minutes to open.

Comments appreciated.

Roger

2468
Ian Lowe
RE: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
30/08/2006 17:03:00

>Comments appreciated.

Just the default IT guy reaction - back it up. Now.

2469
Roger Stanyard
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
30/08/2006 17:43:00

--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Lowe" <ian@...> wrote:
>
> >Comments appreciated.
>
> Just the default IT guy reaction - back it up. Now.
>

It's all been backed up but I now notice that the section that gives
access to friends has been wiped clean.

I'm using Yahoo 360 which is in beta stage. Could this have anything to
do with it?

Roger

2470
BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
New poll for BlackShadow
30/08/2006 17:48:00

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
BlackShadow group:

Do you want the Blackshadow group to become a closed group where outsiders are
unable to see the posts we make?

o Yes
o No
o Indifferent

To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.comhttp://surveys?id=2318635

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

2471
oeditor
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
30/08/2006 18:45:00

--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote:
>

> It's all been backed up but I now notice that the section that gives
> access to friends has been wiped clean.
>
> I'm using Yahoo 360 which is in beta stage. Could this have anything to
> do with it?
Beta, no. Yahoo, yes.
I have no problem accessing the whole of your blog, lists work, groups
works, 'friends' at the top works. Friends at the left works but is
empty. Books I Like works. I can also see the Aug 11 replies - but it
entails quite a wait.

I'm still using Firefox, btw, but I can also see the comments in
Explorer (I just pasted the url).

Only remaining thoughts: some sort of infestation got into your pc? I
can't see it, but what's left? Something to do with your ISP? Cache
problems - once seen a bad page and getting it served over and over?
Try F5 + ctrl or shift - never can remember which.

Good hunting,

Brian

2472
Roger Stanyard
Answers In Genesis
30/08/2006 22:43:00

School is now restarting and I am trying to find our what Philip Bell
of AiG is now up to.

Methinks that there is a chance that he has returned to the teaching
profession.

It would be interesting to find out where.

Can everybody keep their eyes open on this?

A spectacular coup would be if we found out that he had joined the
nutters at the Vardy schools.

2473
Mikey Brass
Re: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
31/08/2006 07:39:00

Roger Stanyard wrote:

> If anyone in the group would like to se if they have having problems
> using it, the address is at http://blog.360.yahoo.com/stanyardroger.
>
> Using it has been getting progressively worse. I first notice a
> problem with two replies to an August 11th article on the SPKN
> bookshop. All I got when I tried to open them was a black page
> message.

I am able to access everything, from your first post to last and the
various comments inbetween. I do not believe that Yahoo has been hacked.
I do, however, believe there is another problem: your blog would be
mirrored (raided is the technical term) across literally a couple of
dozen servers. The state of your connection, and the quality of data
received, depends upon the route your connection takes into a particular
data centre (which is determined by Yahoo as part of "load balancing")
as well as the state of the particular server that connection links you to.

2474
Roger Stanyard
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
31/08/2006 09:37:00

--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Mikey Brass <michael.brass@...>
wrote:
>
> Roger Stanyard wrote:
>
> > If anyone in the group would like to se if they have having
problems
> > using it, the address is at
http://blog.360.yahoo.com/stanyardroger.
> >
> > Using it has been getting progressively worse. I first notice a
> > problem with two replies to an August 11th article on the SPKN
> > bookshop. All I got when I tried to open them was a black page
> > message.
>
> I am able to access everything, from your first post to last and
the
> various comments inbetween.

Thanks Mikey. Yep, I guess it has something to do with Yahoo. As at
this morning the blogg seems to be OK with the missing bits returned.

2475
Marc Draco
Mailing list
31/08/2006 22:02:00

We really need to get away from Yahoo - and I've said this before.

I'm pretty sure there must be several free PHP boards we can use and
hosting a board isn't that expensive.

If push comes to shove, I can even write our own!

2476
Roger Stanyard
Re: Mailing list
31/08/2006 22:35:00

--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Marc Draco <midnight.diamond@...>
wrote:
>
> We really need to get away from Yahoo - and I've said this before.
>
> I'm pretty sure there must be several free PHP boards we can use
and
> hosting a board isn't that expensive.
>
> If push comes to shove, I can even write our own!
>

All I would do to point out here is that Peter Hearty did a poll on
the NSS newsline a couple of months back and found that the consensus
was to stick with Yahoo.

I feel differently. I don't like Yahoo at all.

On the issue of making this group closed user group, the poll closes
(IIRC) on 6th Sept. It's holiday time so we need to wait a bit but as
it stands tonight the poll is strongly in favour of making it closed.

As I promised, a large amount of info from this group has been posted
to our web site so at least we have addressed one issue.

See the stuff on ESF and Nigel McQuoid.

I have a large article on John Burn to post. As it stands, I see Burn
as the real power behind the Vardy schools and fundies in the
northeast.

Anyone got a view on this?

Roger

.

2477
oeditor
Re: Mailing list
01/09/2006 00:25:00

--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote:
>
> All I would do to point out here is that Peter Hearty did a poll on
> the NSS newsline a couple of months back and found that the consensus
> was to stick with Yahoo.
True and agreed. I voted that way. But without recalling my thoughts
at the time, I think my objections were:
1) the problems of moving members and archives over
2) there wasn't anything on offer which would do the same as Yahoo but
do it properly.

I take it that Marc and Ian can overcome problem 2. As for 1, never
mind the archives, just wave goodbye to Nick, 'Andrew Shill' and the like!

Brian

2478
ukantic
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
01/09/2006 00:24:00

--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Lowe" <ian@...> wrote:
>
> > The other alternative is to make use of the No to Academies web site
> for specific stuff on the Vardy academies. What do you think?
>
> Best to keep it distinct, I would say.
>
> I will provide assistance (if desired) to provide an integrated mailing
> list/forum, and can do this on an existing server (such as
blackshadow) or,

I now have so much on my web space that I am not really that keen to
add anymore. My own view is that there are so many good forums out
there that take just 10 minutes to set up & seem to work just fine,
that it's not really worth bothering with hosting one. In fact I
recently removed one that one of the kids had installed then lost
interest in.

I am not even that worried about continuing using Yahoo (but making it
private) as I prefer the sequential format as opposed to splitting
posts up into different categories.

What we could do is revert to using BS for keeping a record of press
reports, etc & start a non yahoo forum that is private for planning
etc. On SJS they have a blog for storing news reports which serves the
same purpose. I used to contribute to it but the anti-spam measures
made the whole process very tedious.

Ideally, everything should be under the same roof with an open section
for news & a closed section for the private stuff. There are now so
many forums about that there is a danger of (for the want of a better
description), "forum rot", when you left thinking to yourself, "not
another bloody forum"!

Alan.

2479
oeditor
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
01/09/2006 00:55:00

--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "ukantic" <alan@...> wrote:
> I am not even that worried about continuing using Yahoo (but making it
> private) as I prefer the sequential format as opposed to splitting
> posts up into different categories.
Thanks Alan for focussing on the good - vital? - thing about Yahoo
groups. I can sit back and wait for the messages to come to me rather
than log-on everywhenever to see if there's anything new.

I think Ian and Marc can replicate this, but without it I'd have to be
dragged kicking and screaming.

Brian
who is watching "Planets" on UK-TV History. Quite a god, winding up
all that lot and letting it run, just 6000 years ago. What do the
professors of thermodynamics say about that event?

2480
Mikey Brass
Re: Re: Mailing list
01/09/2006 07:24:00

I just do not think it is worth to take the time to create a new mailing
list when Yahoo handles the functionality already.

Personally, I have had no problem following the thread and think the
message archive should remain open. So what if there are occasionally
delays; is that really ruining anyone's life? There are more important
things to be stressed over and discussed.

2481
ukantic
New academy is a popular choice
01/09/2006 11:35:00

Aug 31 2006 By Lucy Lynch

AN ACADEMY in Chelmsley Wood, sponsored by the same man due to
sponsor a city academy in Coventry, has proved a hit with parents.
The Grace Academy, sponsored by millionaire businessman Bob
Edmiston, opens to pupils on Tuesday, September 12, replacing
Whitestone School which closed in July.

Mr Edmiston will also be the sponsor of a city academy to replace
Woodway Park School in Wigston Road, Woodway Park, Coventry.
A new building for the Grace Academy, serving 11 to 18-year-old
pupils, was created alongside the former Whitestone School buildings
in Chelmsley Wood, in the Solihull Borough Council area.

It's hoped this will also happen in Coventry, with a new building
going next to the old 1960s one at Woodway Park School. And both
academies are set to be specialist business and enterprise schools.

Grace Academy principal David Wootton said: "We are very popular
with parents. In year seven (the first year of secondary school) we
have 110 people on the waiting list and there have been 49 appeals
by parents wanting a place for their child at the school.

"We are part of the coordinated admissions scheme so our admissions
policies are the same as any other school."

A formal opening ceremony is planned for later in the year.
Mr Edmiston, chairman of the IM Group, built up his fortune
importing Subaru cars. He is a devout Christian and runs a network
of Christian radio stations in developing countries. He plans to run
both the Grace Academy and the academy to replace Woodway Park on
Christian principles.

http://iccoventry.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/tm_objectid=
17655808&method=full&siteid=50003&headline=new-academy-is-a-popular-
choice--name_page.html

http://tinyurl.com/j8dv4

2482
Marc Draco
Pope to debate evolution....
01/09/2006 12:34:00

Do what?

http://tinyurl.com/qcasv

2483
Marc Draco
Re: Re: Mailing list
01/09/2006 12:43:00

I have to disagree. Creating a mailing list is simplicity in itself.
Making it web-based is more difficult, to be sure. I expect Ian is quite
capable of creating such a thing. I know I could (in fact, I'm doing
something very like that right now).

I'm sick to what's left of my back teeth with replies (or my own posts
come to that) coming back sometimes DAYS after they are posted. This
frequently puts them out of context and invalidates the thread. The
whole point of discussion is that it's structured - Yahoo is turning
this into a free for all. Blackshadow isn't alone in this - I'm a member
of a moderated Yahoo group which, surprisingly perhaps, suffers from the
same problem.

In all the time I've been "on" the net, Yahoo groups is the only time
I've actually seen emails get regularly spat out at seemingly random.

Mikey Brass wrote:
>
> I just do not think it is worth to take the time to create a new mailing
> list when Yahoo handles the functionality already.
>
> Personally, I have had no problem following the thread and think the
> message archive should remain open. So what if there are occasionally
> delays; is that really ruining anyone's life? There are more important
> things to be stressed over and discussed.
>
>

2484
Rudy Vonk
Re: Re: Mailing list
01/09/2006 12:16:00

On 01 sep 2006, at 08:24, Mikey Brass wrote:

> I just do not think it is worth to take the time to create a new
> mailing
> list when Yahoo handles the functionality already.
>
> Personally, I have had no problem following the thread and think the
> message archive should remain open. So what if there are occasionally
> delays; is that really ruining anyone's life? There are more important
> things to be stressed over and discussed.

The most irritating interruptions in the "in-order" flow of messages
from this or any other newsgroup are not caused by Yahoo, but by local
server failures. When the thing is up again, messages that could not be
delivered at first turn up 4 hours after the original attempt, but
meanwhile you are receiving lots of newer messages, including replies
to the ones you haven't received yet.

OTOH, Usenet sucks if, like I, you have an ISP with a news server that
catches posts when they are five days old...

cellpadding="2"
Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored]

2485
Marc Draco
Re: Re: Mailing list
01/09/2006 13:02:00

Rudy Vonk wrote:
> On 01 sep 2006, at 08:24, Mikey Brass wrote:
>
> I just do not think it is worth to take the time to create a new
> mailing
> list when Yahoo handles the functionality already.
>
> Personally, I have had no problem following the thread and think the
> message archive should remain open. So what if there are occasionally
> delays; is that really ruining anyone's life? There are more
> important
> things to be stressed over and discussed.
>
>
> The most irritating interruptions in the "in-order" flow of messages
> from this or any other newsgroup are not caused by Yahoo, but by local
> server failures. When the thing is up again, messages that could not
> be delivered at first turn up 4 hours after the original attempt, but
> meanwhile you are receiving lots of newer messages, including replies
> to the ones you haven't received yet.
>
> OTOH, Usenet sucks if, like I, you have an ISP with a news server that
> catches posts when they are five days old...
>
Yeah. That's 100% true - but I think that we're affected more in the UK
because messages have to traverse that many more servers to get to us.
Since this is UK group (mostly) we really should be using a UK server to
reduce this problem. Having a web-based copy, we remove the mail problem
entirely. I know Yahoo has a web interface, but all the logins suck.

2486
Ian Lowe
RE: Pope to debate evolution....
01/09/2006 13:02:00

Been watching this intently since Ratzinger sacked/moved his former
astronomer, who was quite strongly anti "ID".

It's a mixed position - we really need to see what happens from here. This
whole "we don't seek to come to conclusions" is frankly, arse. This is about
debating the future position of the Catholic Church.

As I see it, there are three options - they come out strongly for ID, in
which case they have placed themselves squarely as in the enemy camp, and
ergo a target for campaigning (this affects us in Scotland, as the Catholic
church is entwined with education here)

They could come to a wishy washy position, which would make the church
essentially neutral - probably the best we can hope for, given the church's
long history of being completely anti-science.

Thirdly, and least likely, is reinforcing the current position - that the
Catholic church does not endorse creationism.

Of course, if they leave the door open for ID... then it's all up in the
air, and we need to see what individual Bishop's councils choose to make of
it - in that case Hume (England) and Conti (Scotland) have both been fairly
enlightened in the past.

Tense times.

-----Original Message-----
From: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com [BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Marc Draco
Sent: 01 September 2006 12:34
To: blackShadow@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BlackShadow] Pope to debate evolution....

Do what?

http://tinyurl.com/qcasv

Yahoo! Groups Links

2487
George Jelliss
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
01/09/2006 15:05:00

--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny Flank" <lflank@> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm thinking of creating our own organization thats organized
> at a
> > > local level. I just can't see us making any impact in our
> current
> > > circumstances. We need to get organized and bring this
> arguement to
> > > joe public. Otherwise we're just banging our heads against a
> cyber
> > > wall while people like Vardy and co are spreading.
> >
> >
> > Well, I don't care what organizational name anyone uses, or even
> if
> > they use any at all.
> >
> > But any time some creationut speaks in public anywhere, there
> should
> > be a welcoming committee passing out leaflets at the front gate.
> >
> > Talk is cheap. Action is not. But it's the action that gets
> things
> > done, not the talk.
> >
>
> And everyone is reminded that there is a welcoming committee for
> Ken Ham this Friday organised by George. I'll be there.
>
> Roger
>

"Organised" may be a bit of an overstatement, and anyway it's all a
cooperative thing between members of Leicester Secular Society
(that's my excuse in advance). The plan is to be there at 7pm as
people arrive for the meeting and to display a few posters as they
go in, and answer any queries they may have. There will also
probably be members on the gates into the campus, handing out
leaflets, if we get enough members to come out.

Just thought I'd take the opportunity to draw attention to this blog
that I came across recently. It has some good counter-creationism
stuff, based on astronomy.

http://rationalist-ruminations.blogspot.com/

By Steve G. of Michigan if I remember right.

2488
Rudy Vonk
Re: Pope to debate evolution....
01/09/2006 16:12:00

On 01 sep 2006, at 14:02, Ian Lowe wrote:

> As I see it, there are three options - they come out strongly for ID,
> in
> which case they have placed themselves squarely as in the enemy camp,
> and
> ergo a target for campaigning (this affects us in Scotland, as the
> Catholic
> church is entwined with education here)

Ok, here are my bets / odds. I'd offer 100/1 against this first option.
There is simply no way that a (conservative, right-wing, yes) highly
intellectual pope is going to trash science, with no support from his
home crowd. There is not a glimmer of hope for ID in Europe outside the
UK.

> They could come to a wishy washy position, which would make the church
> essentially neutral - probably the best we can hope for, given the
> church's
> long history of being completely anti-science.

Since "wishy-washy" is, by definition, impossible to define :-) (kind
of like "I think a horse will win"), you may well claim that this
alternative has already won before the horses are out of the gates.

> Thirdly, and least likely, is reinforcing the current position - that
> the
> Catholic church does not endorse creationism.

On the contrary, I believe an assertion of "theistic evolution" is by
far the most likely outcome. 5/4 on. Science remains intact, but "it is
there because of Dawg". Not, however, "organisms evolved through random
mutation and natural selection except certain details like flagella and
eyes which were directly commissioned by Dawg".

> Of course, if they leave the door open for ID... then it's all up in
> the
> air, and we need to see what individual Bishop's councils choose to
> make of
> it - in that case Hume (England) and Conti (Scotland) have both been
> fairly
> enlightened in the past.

Let us not exaggerate the context of this meeting. Ratzinger had been
having them with what are above all his alumni, for years. Schönborn
just happens to have made it to Cardinal, but other than that I do not
see (admittedly I am not a member of the band, having come to the
conclusion that I am an atheist) any ecclesiastical significance in
this event.

Your mileage may differ...

cellpadding="2"
Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored]

2489
vulcannuk
People who take a flu jab should sign.....
01/09/2006 16:27:00

That they believe in evolution. Think about it, how can all these
creationists actually have flu jabs when they don't believe that the
virus can actually mutate, evolve and adapt? I say we lobby for it!

Heres where I got the idea from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=N4DJznVkFfU

Stefan

2490
vulcannuk
Re: Emmanuel Schools Trust
01/09/2006 16:42:00

--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...>
wrote:
>
> I've added Stefan's info on creationism In King's to the web site
under
> Emmanuel Schools Trust. see
>
http://www.blackshadow.me.uk/index.php/Main/EmmanuelSchoolsFoundation
>
> I think that we need to get as much info as we can on this.
>
> I have a quick uestion for Stefan (perhaps Marc can answer it) -
What
> does PTE stand for?
>
> If anyone wants to edit or add to the info directly, let me know
and I
> will email the keys and simple instructions to use the Wiki. It's
dead
> easy.
>
> Roger
>

Sorry for the delayed reply. PTE = Philosophy Theology and Ethics.

2491
Marc Draco
Re: Re: Emmanuel Schools Trust
01/09/2006 16:52:00

another one of those things they have made up presumably...

Not exactly one of the 3rs is it!

vulcannuk wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
> <BlackShadow%40yahoogroups.com>, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I've added Stefan's info on creationism In King's to the web site
> under
> > Emmanuel Schools Trust. see
> >
> http://www.blackshadow.me.uk/index.php/Main/EmmanuelSchoolsFoundation
> <http://www.blackshadow.me.uk/index.php/Main/EmmanuelSchoolsFoundation>
> >
> > I think that we need to get as much info as we can on this.
> >
> > I have a quick uestion for Stefan (perhaps Marc can answer it) -
> What
> > does PTE stand for?
> >
> > If anyone wants to edit or add to the info directly, let me know
> and I
> > will email the keys and simple instructions to use the Wiki. It's
> dead
> > easy.
> >
> > Roger
> >
>
> Sorry for the delayed reply. PTE = Philosophy Theology and Ethics.
>
>

2492
Marc Draco
Re: People who take a flu jab should sign.....
01/09/2006 16:46:00

They get round it using the idea that micro-evolution does occur but
that the world "as we know it" was created. They always have a get out.

:0(
vulcannuk wrote:
>
> That they believe in evolution. Think about it, how can all these
> creationists actually have flu jabs when they don't believe that the
> virus can actually mutate, evolve and adapt? I say we lobby for it!
>
> Heres where I got the idea from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?>
> v=N4DJznVkFfU
>
> Stefan
>
>

2493
oeditor
Re: People who take a flu jab should sign.....
01/09/2006 17:05:00

--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "vulcannuk" <vulcannuk@...> wrote:
>
> Think about it, how can all these
> creationists actually have flu jabs when they don't believe that the
> virus can actually mutate, evolve and adapt?

They don't just lie to everyone else, they lie to themselves. So they
say that goddidit 6000 years ago and there's no evolution. Then having
painted themselves into a corner, they admit to what they call
"microevolution" and lump bacterial and viral mutations in with that.
Just as a cop-out, of course.

Staying truer to their convictions, they sometimes argue that all the
necessary stuff for variation has always been there in the original
virus, it's just that different bits of it show themselves in
different strains. You know, same as the way the god gave them enzymes
to digest nylon 5900 years before nylon was invented by man.

But yes, let them have flu :-))

Brian

2494
Roger Stanyard
Re: People who take a flu jab should sign.....
01/09/2006 21:12:00

--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "vulcannuk" <vulcannuk@...> wrote:
>
> That they believe in evolution. Think about it, how can all these
> creationists actually have flu jabs when they don't believe that
the
> virus can actually mutate, evolve and adapt? I say we lobby for it!
>
> Heres where I got the idea from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?
> v=N4DJznVkFfU
>

I would like to say that so many of them are pig ignorant that it
shouldn't surprise anyone.

But that doesn't really stack up because Nigel Burn (who I have just
posted a bit on), like it or not, has had a very successful career.

Still, I've also just been in a "debate" with a fundie who believes
that measles is prevented by antibiotics. Heaven help his family! He
doesn't actually know what a virus is but claims to have a scientific
education.

One wonders just what the likes of Bluecoat school and the Vardy
schools are turning out. Sooner or later someone is going to die as a
consequence.

2495
Roger Stanyard
Ken Ham Welcoming Committee
02/09/2006 10:50:00

Ken Ham was received by the welcoming committee of the Leicester
Secular Society yesterday when he went to the city's main university.
George Jellis ended up having an argument with him. There was a turnout
of about six by the committee. George is going to write something up
for his own organisation's blog.

I missed the event because I got caught up in a monumental dead-stop 15
mile long traffic jam outside of Oxford.

Roger

2496
Mikey Brass
Re: Ken Ham Welcoming Committee
02/09/2006 11:10:00

Roger Stanyard wrote:
> Ken Ham was received by the welcoming committee of the Leicester
> Secular Society yesterday when he went to the city's main university.
> George Jellis ended up having an argument with him.

Did Jellis do a Buzz Aldrid impression? *grins hopefully*

2497
vulcannuk
Really good site
02/09/2006 12:18:00

I am un-sure if you all know about this site or not, but I have to say
it is really, really good (considering its American!). They've also
produced some marvellous video's - Why the bible is repulsive and why
nobody can get into heaven are particularly good. Take a look:

http://www.godisimaginary.com/

2498
Ian Lowe
RE: Really good site
02/09/2006 14:12:00

The same guy is responsible for another great site:

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

It's basically examining the point Richard Dawkins made at Lourdes -
"miracle" healings are always something internal, hard to verify or a matter
of personal feeling - never something like regrowing an amputated limb.

Essentially, I see creationism as a special case of this larger movement - a
great many people who consider themselves christian don't actually believe
that *any* of the supposed miracles are anything more than metaphor or
stories told for effect.

As people become better educated, religion which relies on belief in the
supernatural becomes less and less acceptable - people just don't believe in
claptrap like noah's ark, the virgin birth, walking on water etc etc any
more.

Hell, most people who call themselves christians are simply unaware of the
barbaric laws proscribed by the bible any more. They simply haven't read the
thing!

The creationists are stuck in an ever diminishing backwater, and their only
hope is to attack education and science - an uneducated, superstitious
population is exactly what these people want, because anyone who has been
educated or who thinks in a scientific way will not accept this stuff
without thinking.

I.

-----Original Message-----
From: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com [BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of vulcannuk
Sent: 02 September 2006 12:19
To: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BlackShadow] Really good site

I am un-sure if you all know about this site or not, but I have to say it is
really, really good (considering its American!). They've also produced some
marvellous video's - Why the bible is repulsive and why nobody can get into
heaven are particularly good. Take a look:

http://www.godisimaginary.com/

2499
Roger Stanyard
Viz Magazine
02/09/2006 14:34:00

If anyone is interested there is a spoof in the latest issue of Viz on
Rory Alec, head of God TV, and Roger Mellie. I have only glanced at it
but being a long time Viz fan, I suspect it is pretty witty.

I take Alec and Mellie to be two of a kind!

PS, any ideas when Sidney Smutt will ever get his end away?

Roger

2500
George Jelliss
Re: Ken Ham Welcoming Committee
02/09/2006 18:47:00

--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Mikey Brass <michael.brass@...>
wrote:
>
> Roger Stanyard wrote:
> > Ken Ham was received by the welcoming committee of the Leicester
> > Secular Society yesterday when he went to the city's main
university.
> > George Jellis ended up having an argument with him.
>
> Did Jellis do a Buzz Aldrid impression? *grins hopefully*
>

I'm not sure what the reference is to here, presumably you mean Buzz
Aldrin the astronaut? But what did he do that I should emulate!

I posted a report on our encounter with Ken Ham on Blackshadow
earlier today, but it has not appeared. I keep getting a message
that the Blackshadow site is "temporarily unobtainable".

Meanwhile I posted an account on the Secularists (UK) forum, so I
refer you to that:

http://z6.invisionfree.com/Secularists_UK/

See the News section.

Big View Attach:Site/PageHeader/softflow.gif
Home Underhand Strategies Latest News Updates UK Schools UK Specific Creationism Primer The BCSE More General Articles Join the Fight RD Net Comments Contact Admin	2451 To 2500 2451 Marc Draco Re: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall 29/08/2006 23:22:00 I agree with have priorities, but the problem with Yahoo belching messages when it feels like it is that it's easy to loose track. This has to be a priority for us. Roger Stanyard wrote: > > --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com > <BlackShadow%40yahoogroups.com>, Marc Draco <midnight.diamond@...> > wrote: > > > > I'm with Stefan. Who knows when this message will reach him though - > it > > would be faster to crawl over the road and write it in blood the way > > yahoo is going... > > > > I really favour leaving this arena and moving to a proper BBS. > > > > Yep, couldn't agree with you more but don't you think there are higher > priorities at present? > > 2452 vulcannuk Interesting video 29/08/2006 23:41:00 Hi, Just been on youtube.com . Take a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffX9msPCwZk Wouldn't it be great to find a network that would actually advertise that! 2453 Marc Draco Re: Interesting video 29/08/2006 23:48:00 The comments from "the faithful" are hilarious too! vulcannuk wrote: > > Hi, > > Just been on youtube.com . Take a look at this video: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffX9msPCwZk > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffX9msPCwZk> > > Wouldn't it be great to find a network that would actually advertise > that! > > 2454 Lenny Flank Re: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall 29/08/2006 23:36:00 > I'm thinking of creating our own organization thats organized at a > local level. I just can't see us making any impact in our current > circumstances. We need to get organized and bring this arguement to > joe public. Otherwise we're just banging our heads against a cyber > wall while people like Vardy and co are spreading. Well, I don't care what organizational name anyone uses, or even if they use any at all. But any time some creationut speaks in public anywhere, there should be a welcoming committee passing out leaflets at the front gate. Talk is cheap. Action is not. But it's the action that gets things done, not the talk. =================================== Lenny Flank "There are no loose threads in the web of life" Creation "Science" Debunked http://www.geocities.com/lflank My Reptile Page http://www.geocities.com/lflank/herp.html 2455 Roger Stanyard Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall 30/08/2006 07:22:00 --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny Flank" <lflank@...> wrote: > > > I'm thinking of creating our own organization thats organized at a > > local level. I just can't see us making any impact in our current > > circumstances. We need to get organized and bring this arguement to > > joe public. Otherwise we're just banging our heads against a cyber > > wall while people like Vardy and co are spreading. > > > Well, I don't care what organizational name anyone uses, or even if > they use any at all. > > But any time some creationut speaks in public anywhere, there should > be a welcoming committee passing out leaflets at the front gate. > > Talk is cheap. Action is not. But it's the action that gets things > done, not the talk. > And everyone is reminded that there is a welcoming committee for Ken Ham this Friday organised by George. I'll be there. Roger > > > > > =================================== > Lenny Flank > "There are no loose threads in the web of life" > > Creation "Science" Debunked > http://www.geocities.com/lflank > > My Reptile Page > http://www.geocities.com/lflank/herp.html > 2456 Roger Stanyard Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall 30/08/2006 09:12:00 --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "oeditor" <b-jordan@...> wrote: > > --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@> wrote: > > > Yep, couldn't agree with you more but don't you think there are higher > > priorities at present? > > Yes - setting up a private group where our deiberations aren't > undertaken beneath the spotlights of watching cretinists. > > Brian > Now we have a web site up and running and basically complete, it's time to reconsider whether this group is open for outsiders to peruse. Alan has offered an alternative that we can use as a closed group but I am reluctant to manage two groups at the same time. It seems to me that now we have an advertisement for the group in the form of the web site (which has a lot of data on it now), the need for this group as an advertisement is no no longer that important. Moreover, in its open form, it is probably a bit of a a liability. I'm worried that my own blog has been attacked by the fundies. It is now nearly impossible to use. Messages posted to it come up as blank pages and it is almost impossible to open the postings mafe by me vefore 2nd July. That's my problem but it does appear that the fundies are looking at us carefully and are not idle - see the Andy Shill post for example. I think that this issue should be decided by a simple poll. Any comments before I open the poll? Roger 2457 Roger Stanyard Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall 30/08/2006 09:18:00 --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Marc Draco <midnight.diamond@...> wrote: > > I agree with have priorities, but the problem with Yahoo belching > messages when it feels like it is that it's easy to loose track. > > This has to be a priority for us. > I must admit that I am pissed off with Yahoo and we need to move on (what's happening to my blog is worrying.). However, in the meanwhile we have a couple of measures that can alleviate the problem of accessng past posts. I'll be posting some of Stefan's info from the last day or so to our web site so that it is properly on record. The other alternative is to make use of the No to Academies web site for specific stuff on the Vardy academies. What do you think? All comments welcome. Roger . 2458 Roger Stanyard Re: Interesting video 30/08/2006 09:25:00 --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "vulcannuk" <vulcannuk@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > Just been on youtube.com . Take a look at this video: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffX9msPCwZk > > Wouldn't it be great to find a network that would actually advertise > that! Stefan, I can only view about 8 seconds of this video and then it stops. It say that the video runs for over two minutes. Any idea what I am doing wrong? Interestingly the page refers to a video about (or from) the Hillsong Church. That's a powerful bunch of pentecostal fundies in Sydney in Australia. There are a lot of questions being asked about its secret finances and the lifestyles of the people that control it. They also, basically, have their own political party. There is an article on my blog about it. Hillsong has opened up a branch in London that we need to keep an eye on. Roger 2459 Roger Stanyard Day One 30/08/2006 09:37:00 I did a bit of brief research over the bank holiday on one of the signatories to the Estelle Morris letter - Nigel Robinson. I'll have to check further but it appears that he is actually not an academic as claimed but a Baptist minister. He now appears to have taken early retirement and is heading up a ministry that is aimed at the prison population. (there is stuff on the web site about him, btw. Click onto Estelle Morris and his name is on the list of signatories. Click onto that will bring up details). However, the matter looks to be worse that I thought. His overall "boss" is one of the names involved in Truth in Science which looks to be the most hard-core of the creatinist groups in the UK. Those associated with it look like a rougues gallery of leading creationist activists - Burgess, McIntosh et al. It also now appears that the prison ministry is actually a spin off from Day One which is the renamed Lord's Day Observance Society. As I have pointed out befor, this outfit looks to have been infiltrated with creationist fundies. From what I now see, it is extending its remit well beyond keeping Sunday as a religious day. A cynic may well conclude that it is now recruiting criminals to the fundie cause. I'll be adding furher details to out web site later today. As a lot of you may know, Fay One Publications, which is the publishing arm, is really into publishing creationist crapola and has been for a long time. Roger 2460 Roger Stanyard Emmanuel Schools Trust 30/08/2006 10:14:00 I've added Stefan's info on creationism In King's to the web site under Emmanuel Schools Trust. see http://www.blackshadow.me.uk/index.php/Main/EmmanuelSchoolsFoundation I think that we need to get as much info as we can on this. I have a quick uestion for Stefan (perhaps Marc can answer it) - What does PTE stand for? If anyone wants to edit or add to the info directly, let me know and I will email the keys and simple instructions to use the Wiki. It's dead easy. Roger 2461 Ian Lowe RE: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall 30/08/2006 10:11:00 > The other alternative is to make use of the No to Academies web site for specific stuff on the Vardy academies. What do you think? Best to keep it distinct, I would say. I will provide assistance (if desired) to provide an integrated mailing list/forum, and can do this on an existing server (such as blackshadow) or, if that's not okay, If it's required, I can provide hosting space for it on the same server as the SAC website (it would be completely distinct), although I would prefer not to do so (potential conflict of interest) I. 2462 Mikey Brass Re: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall 30/08/2006 11:09:00 Roger Stanyard wrote: > Moreover, in its open form, it is probably a bit of a a liability. > I'm worried that my own blog has been attacked by the fundies. It is > now nearly impossible to use. Messages posted to it come up as blank > pages and it is almost impossible to open the postings mafe by me > vefore 2nd July. Which browsers have you tested your blog with and have enough people, on different machines, verified? 2463 Marc Draco Found on Viewtube 30/08/2006 11:45:00 No all Americans are blithering idiots. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2SVMKZhV2g&NR The problem with faith is that the will look at this and dismiss it as a trick. Which it isn't! Sad. 2464 oeditor Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall 30/08/2006 11:53:00 --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Mikey Brass <michael.brass@...> wrote: > > Which browsers have you tested your blog with and have enough people, on > different machines, verified? It must be a Yahoo thing. I tried it (with Firefox)twice about an hour ago and couldn't get beyond the first page (July 26). Now, with patience, I've been able to go all the way back to the beginning. Brian 2465 Mikey Brass Re: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall 30/08/2006 12:09:00 oeditor wrote: > It must be a Yahoo thing. Agreed. I do not think it is because of hacking, although Yahoo's servers do get hacked fairly regularly. 2466 Marc Draco Re: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall 30/08/2006 13:13:00 Either way, we need a reliable system that deals with emails in the correct Chrono order and doesn't spit them out when it feels like it. SOON. This should be a closed list to arrange stuff in peace without interference from arrogant idiots who hide behind science degrees. Marc Ian Lowe wrote: > > > The other alternative is to make use of the No to Academies web site > for specific stuff on the Vardy academies. What do you think? > > Best to keep it distinct, I would say. > > I will provide assistance (if desired) to provide an integrated mailing > list/forum, and can do this on an existing server (such as > blackshadow) or, > if that's not okay, > > If it's required, I can provide hosting space for it on the same server as > the SAC website (it would be completely distinct), although I would prefer > not to do so (potential conflict of interest) > > I. > > 2467 Roger Stanyard Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall 30/08/2006 16:45:00 --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Mikey Brass <michael.brass@...> wrote: > > Roger Stanyard wrote: > > > Moreover, in its open form, it is probably a bit of a a liability. > > I'm worried that my own blog has been attacked by the fundies. It is > > now nearly impossible to use. Messages posted to it come up as blank > > pages and it is almost impossible to open the postings mafe by me > > vefore 2nd July. > > Which browsers have you tested your blog with and have enough people, on > different machines, verified? > The broweser is IE which I have been using for 2 years and I used to set up and manage the blogg. If anyone in the group would like to se if they have having problems using it, the address is at http://blog.360.yahoo.com/stanyardroger. Using it has been getting progressively worse. I first notice a problem with two replies to an August 11th article on the SPKN bookshop. All I got when I tried to open them was a black page message. Around the same time, I was largely unable to acess anything older than 2nd July. However, this afternoon it had largely collapsed. The section that gives access to other yahoo groups I am a member of had been wiped clean and the blog itself took six or seven minutes to open. Comments appreciated. Roger 2468 Ian Lowe RE: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall 30/08/2006 17:03:00 >Comments appreciated. Just the default IT guy reaction - back it up. Now. 2469 Roger Stanyard Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall 30/08/2006 17:43:00 --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Lowe" <ian@...> wrote: > > >Comments appreciated. > > Just the default IT guy reaction - back it up. Now. > It's all been backed up but I now notice that the section that gives access to friends has been wiped clean. I'm using Yahoo 360 which is in beta stage. Could this have anything to do with it? Roger 2470 BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com New poll for BlackShadow 30/08/2006 17:48:00 Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the BlackShadow group: Do you want the Blackshadow group to become a closed group where outsiders are unable to see the posts we make? o Yes o No o Indifferent To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.comhttp://surveys?id=2318635 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! 2471 oeditor Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall 30/08/2006 18:45:00 --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote: > > It's all been backed up but I now notice that the section that gives > access to friends has been wiped clean. > > I'm using Yahoo 360 which is in beta stage. Could this have anything to > do with it? Beta, no. Yahoo, yes. I have no problem accessing the whole of your blog, lists work, groups works, 'friends' at the top works. Friends at the left works but is empty. Books I Like works. I can also see the Aug 11 replies - but it entails quite a wait. I'm still using Firefox, btw, but I can also see the comments in Explorer (I just pasted the url). Only remaining thoughts: some sort of infestation got into your pc? I can't see it, but what's left? Something to do with your ISP? Cache problems - once seen a bad page and getting it served over and over? Try F5 + ctrl or shift - never can remember which. Good hunting, Brian 2472 Roger Stanyard Answers In Genesis 30/08/2006 22:43:00 School is now restarting and I am trying to find our what Philip Bell of AiG is now up to. Methinks that there is a chance that he has returned to the teaching profession. It would be interesting to find out where. Can everybody keep their eyes open on this? A spectacular coup would be if we found out that he had joined the nutters at the Vardy schools. 2473 Mikey Brass Re: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall 31/08/2006 07:39:00 Roger Stanyard wrote: > If anyone in the group would like to se if they have having problems > using it, the address is at http://blog.360.yahoo.com/stanyardroger. > > Using it has been getting progressively worse. I first notice a > problem with two replies to an August 11th article on the SPKN > bookshop. All I got when I tried to open them was a black page > message. I am able to access everything, from your first post to last and the various comments inbetween. I do not believe that Yahoo has been hacked. I do, however, believe there is another problem: your blog would be mirrored (raided is the technical term) across literally a couple of dozen servers. The state of your connection, and the quality of data received, depends upon the route your connection takes into a particular data centre (which is determined by Yahoo as part of "load balancing") as well as the state of the particular server that connection links you to. 2474 Roger Stanyard Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall 31/08/2006 09:37:00 --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Mikey Brass <michael.brass@...> wrote: > > Roger Stanyard wrote: > > > If anyone in the group would like to se if they have having problems > > using it, the address is at http://blog.360.yahoo.com/stanyardroger. > > > > Using it has been getting progressively worse. I first notice a > > problem with two replies to an August 11th article on the SPKN > > bookshop. All I got when I tried to open them was a black page > > message. > > I am able to access everything, from your first post to last and the > various comments inbetween. Thanks Mikey. Yep, I guess it has something to do with Yahoo. As at this morning the blogg seems to be OK with the missing bits returned. 2475 Marc Draco Mailing list 31/08/2006 22:02:00 We really need to get away from Yahoo - and I've said this before. I'm pretty sure there must be several free PHP boards we can use and hosting a board isn't that expensive. If push comes to shove, I can even write our own! 2476 Roger Stanyard Re: Mailing list 31/08/2006 22:35:00 --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Marc Draco <midnight.diamond@...> wrote: > > We really need to get away from Yahoo - and I've said this before. > > I'm pretty sure there must be several free PHP boards we can use and > hosting a board isn't that expensive. > > If push comes to shove, I can even write our own! > All I would do to point out here is that Peter Hearty did a poll on the NSS newsline a couple of months back and found that the consensus was to stick with Yahoo. I feel differently. I don't like Yahoo at all. On the issue of making this group closed user group, the poll closes (IIRC) on 6th Sept. It's holiday time so we need to wait a bit but as it stands tonight the poll is strongly in favour of making it closed. As I promised, a large amount of info from this group has been posted to our web site so at least we have addressed one issue. See the stuff on ESF and Nigel McQuoid. I have a large article on John Burn to post. As it stands, I see Burn as the real power behind the Vardy schools and fundies in the northeast. Anyone got a view on this? Roger . 2477 oeditor Re: Mailing list 01/09/2006 00:25:00 --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote: > > All I would do to point out here is that Peter Hearty did a poll on > the NSS newsline a couple of months back and found that the consensus > was to stick with Yahoo. True and agreed. I voted that way. But without recalling my thoughts at the time, I think my objections were: 1) the problems of moving members and archives over 2) there wasn't anything on offer which would do the same as Yahoo but do it properly. I take it that Marc and Ian can overcome problem 2. As for 1, never mind the archives, just wave goodbye to Nick, 'Andrew Shill' and the like! Brian 2478 ukantic Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall 01/09/2006 00:24:00 --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Lowe" <ian@...> wrote: > > > The other alternative is to make use of the No to Academies web site > for specific stuff on the Vardy academies. What do you think? > > Best to keep it distinct, I would say. > > I will provide assistance (if desired) to provide an integrated mailing > list/forum, and can do this on an existing server (such as blackshadow) or, I now have so much on my web space that I am not really that keen to add anymore. My own view is that there are so many good forums out there that take just 10 minutes to set up & seem to work just fine, that it's not really worth bothering with hosting one. In fact I recently removed one that one of the kids had installed then lost interest in. I am not even that worried about continuing using Yahoo (but making it private) as I prefer the sequential format as opposed to splitting posts up into different categories. What we could do is revert to using BS for keeping a record of press reports, etc & start a non yahoo forum that is private for planning etc. On SJS they have a blog for storing news reports which serves the same purpose. I used to contribute to it but the anti-spam measures made the whole process very tedious. Ideally, everything should be under the same roof with an open section for news & a closed section for the private stuff. There are now so many forums about that there is a danger of (for the want of a better description), "forum rot", when you left thinking to yourself, "not another bloody forum"! Alan. 2479 oeditor Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall 01/09/2006 00:55:00 --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "ukantic" <alan@...> wrote: > I am not even that worried about continuing using Yahoo (but making it > private) as I prefer the sequential format as opposed to splitting > posts up into different categories. Thanks Alan for focussing on the good - vital? - thing about Yahoo groups. I can sit back and wait for the messages to come to me rather than log-on everywhenever to see if there's anything new. I think Ian and Marc can replicate this, but without it I'd have to be dragged kicking and screaming. Brian who is watching "Planets" on UK-TV History. Quite a god, winding up all that lot and letting it run, just 6000 years ago. What do the professors of thermodynamics say about that event? 2480 Mikey Brass Re: Re: Mailing list 01/09/2006 07:24:00 I just do not think it is worth to take the time to create a new mailing list when Yahoo handles the functionality already. Personally, I have had no problem following the thread and think the message archive should remain open. So what if there are occasionally delays; is that really ruining anyone's life? There are more important things to be stressed over and discussed. 2481 ukantic New academy is a popular choice 01/09/2006 11:35:00 Aug 31 2006 By Lucy Lynch AN ACADEMY in Chelmsley Wood, sponsored by the same man due to sponsor a city academy in Coventry, has proved a hit with parents. The Grace Academy, sponsored by millionaire businessman Bob Edmiston, opens to pupils on Tuesday, September 12, replacing Whitestone School which closed in July. Mr Edmiston will also be the sponsor of a city academy to replace Woodway Park School in Wigston Road, Woodway Park, Coventry. A new building for the Grace Academy, serving 11 to 18-year-old pupils, was created alongside the former Whitestone School buildings in Chelmsley Wood, in the Solihull Borough Council area. It's hoped this will also happen in Coventry, with a new building going next to the old 1960s one at Woodway Park School. And both academies are set to be specialist business and enterprise schools. Grace Academy principal David Wootton said: "We are very popular with parents. In year seven (the first year of secondary school) we have 110 people on the waiting list and there have been 49 appeals by parents wanting a place for their child at the school. "We are part of the coordinated admissions scheme so our admissions policies are the same as any other school." A formal opening ceremony is planned for later in the year. Mr Edmiston, chairman of the IM Group, built up his fortune importing Subaru cars. He is a devout Christian and runs a network of Christian radio stations in developing countries. He plans to run both the Grace Academy and the academy to replace Woodway Park on Christian principles. http://iccoventry.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/tm_objectid= 17655808&method=full&siteid=50003&headline=new-academy-is-a-popular- choice--name_page.html http://tinyurl.com/j8dv4 2482 Marc Draco Pope to debate evolution.... 01/09/2006 12:34:00 Do what? http://tinyurl.com/qcasv 2483 Marc Draco Re: Re: Mailing list 01/09/2006 12:43:00 I have to disagree. Creating a mailing list is simplicity in itself. Making it web-based is more difficult, to be sure. I expect Ian is quite capable of creating such a thing. I know I could (in fact, I'm doing something very like that right now). I'm sick to what's left of my back teeth with replies (or my own posts come to that) coming back sometimes DAYS after they are posted. This frequently puts them out of context and invalidates the thread. The whole point of discussion is that it's structured - Yahoo is turning this into a free for all. Blackshadow isn't alone in this - I'm a member of a moderated Yahoo group which, surprisingly perhaps, suffers from the same problem. In all the time I've been "on" the net, Yahoo groups is the only time I've actually seen emails get regularly spat out at seemingly random. Mikey Brass wrote: > > I just do not think it is worth to take the time to create a new mailing > list when Yahoo handles the functionality already. > > Personally, I have had no problem following the thread and think the > message archive should remain open. So what if there are occasionally > delays; is that really ruining anyone's life? There are more important > things to be stressed over and discussed. > > 2484 Rudy Vonk Re: Re: Mailing list 01/09/2006 12:16:00 On 01 sep 2006, at 08:24, Mikey Brass wrote: > I just do not think it is worth to take the time to create a new > mailing > list when Yahoo handles the functionality already. > > Personally, I have had no problem following the thread and think the > message archive should remain open. So what if there are occasionally > delays; is that really ruining anyone's life? There are more important > things to be stressed over and discussed. The most irritating interruptions in the "in-order" flow of messages from this or any other newsgroup are not caused by Yahoo, but by local server failures. When the thing is up again, messages that could not be delivered at first turn up 4 hours after the original attempt, but meanwhile you are receiving lots of newer messages, including replies to the ones you haven't received yet. OTOH, Usenet sucks if, like I, you have an ISP with a news server that catches posts when they are five days old... cellpadding="2" Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored] 2485 Marc Draco Re: Re: Mailing list 01/09/2006 13:02:00 Rudy Vonk wrote: > On 01 sep 2006, at 08:24, Mikey Brass wrote: > > I just do not think it is worth to take the time to create a new > mailing > list when Yahoo handles the functionality already. > > Personally, I have had no problem following the thread and think the > message archive should remain open. So what if there are occasionally > delays; is that really ruining anyone's life? There are more > important > things to be stressed over and discussed. > > > The most irritating interruptions in the "in-order" flow of messages > from this or any other newsgroup are not caused by Yahoo, but by local > server failures. When the thing is up again, messages that could not > be delivered at first turn up 4 hours after the original attempt, but > meanwhile you are receiving lots of newer messages, including replies > to the ones you haven't received yet. > > OTOH, Usenet sucks if, like I, you have an ISP with a news server that > catches posts when they are five days old... > Yeah. That's 100% true - but I think that we're affected more in the UK because messages have to traverse that many more servers to get to us. Since this is UK group (mostly) we really should be using a UK server to reduce this problem. Having a web-based copy, we remove the mail problem entirely. I know Yahoo has a web interface, but all the logins suck. 2486 Ian Lowe RE: Pope to debate evolution.... 01/09/2006 13:02:00 Been watching this intently since Ratzinger sacked/moved his former astronomer, who was quite strongly anti "ID". It's a mixed position - we really need to see what happens from here. This whole "we don't seek to come to conclusions" is frankly, arse. This is about debating the future position of the Catholic Church. As I see it, there are three options - they come out strongly for ID, in which case they have placed themselves squarely as in the enemy camp, and ergo a target for campaigning (this affects us in Scotland, as the Catholic church is entwined with education here) They could come to a wishy washy position, which would make the church essentially neutral - probably the best we can hope for, given the church's long history of being completely anti-science. Thirdly, and least likely, is reinforcing the current position - that the Catholic church does not endorse creationism. Of course, if they leave the door open for ID... then it's all up in the air, and we need to see what individual Bishop's councils choose to make of it - in that case Hume (England) and Conti (Scotland) have both been fairly enlightened in the past. Tense times. -----Original Message----- From: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com [BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Marc Draco Sent: 01 September 2006 12:34 To: blackShadow@yahoogroups.com Subject: [BlackShadow] Pope to debate evolution.... Do what? http://tinyurl.com/qcasv Yahoo! Groups Links 2487 George Jelliss Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall 01/09/2006 15:05:00 --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote: > > --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny Flank" <lflank@> wrote: > > > > > I'm thinking of creating our own organization thats organized > at a > > > local level. I just can't see us making any impact in our > current > > > circumstances. We need to get organized and bring this > arguement to > > > joe public. Otherwise we're just banging our heads against a > cyber > > > wall while people like Vardy and co are spreading. > > > > > > Well, I don't care what organizational name anyone uses, or even > if > > they use any at all. > > > > But any time some creationut speaks in public anywhere, there > should > > be a welcoming committee passing out leaflets at the front gate. > > > > Talk is cheap. Action is not. But it's the action that gets > things > > done, not the talk. > > > > And everyone is reminded that there is a welcoming committee for > Ken Ham this Friday organised by George. I'll be there. > > Roger > "Organised" may be a bit of an overstatement, and anyway it's all a cooperative thing between members of Leicester Secular Society (that's my excuse in advance). The plan is to be there at 7pm as people arrive for the meeting and to display a few posters as they go in, and answer any queries they may have. There will also probably be members on the gates into the campus, handing out leaflets, if we get enough members to come out. Just thought I'd take the opportunity to draw attention to this blog that I came across recently. It has some good counter-creationism stuff, based on astronomy. http://rationalist-ruminations.blogspot.com/ By Steve G. of Michigan if I remember right. 2488 Rudy Vonk Re: Pope to debate evolution.... 01/09/2006 16:12:00 On 01 sep 2006, at 14:02, Ian Lowe wrote: > As I see it, there are three options - they come out strongly for ID, > in > which case they have placed themselves squarely as in the enemy camp, > and > ergo a target for campaigning (this affects us in Scotland, as the > Catholic > church is entwined with education here) Ok, here are my bets / odds. I'd offer 100/1 against this first option. There is simply no way that a (conservative, right-wing, yes) highly intellectual pope is going to trash science, with no support from his home crowd. There is not a glimmer of hope for ID in Europe outside the UK. > They could come to a wishy washy position, which would make the church > essentially neutral - probably the best we can hope for, given the > church's > long history of being completely anti-science. Since "wishy-washy" is, by definition, impossible to define :-) (kind of like "I think a horse will win"), you may well claim that this alternative has already won before the horses are out of the gates. > Thirdly, and least likely, is reinforcing the current position - that > the > Catholic church does not endorse creationism. On the contrary, I believe an assertion of "theistic evolution" is by far the most likely outcome. 5/4 on. Science remains intact, but "it is there because of Dawg". Not, however, "organisms evolved through random mutation and natural selection except certain details like flagella and eyes which were directly commissioned by Dawg". > Of course, if they leave the door open for ID... then it's all up in > the > air, and we need to see what individual Bishop's councils choose to > make of > it - in that case Hume (England) and Conti (Scotland) have both been > fairly > enlightened in the past. Let us not exaggerate the context of this meeting. Ratzinger had been having them with what are above all his alumni, for years. Schönborn just happens to have made it to Cardinal, but other than that I do not see (admittedly I am not a member of the band, having come to the conclusion that I am an atheist) any ecclesiastical significance in this event. Your mileage may differ... cellpadding="2" Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored] 2489 vulcannuk People who take a flu jab should sign..... 01/09/2006 16:27:00 That they believe in evolution. Think about it, how can all these creationists actually have flu jabs when they don't believe that the virus can actually mutate, evolve and adapt? I say we lobby for it! Heres where I got the idea from: http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=N4DJznVkFfU Stefan 2490 vulcannuk Re: Emmanuel Schools Trust 01/09/2006 16:42:00 --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote: > > I've added Stefan's info on creationism In King's to the web site under > Emmanuel Schools Trust. see > http://www.blackshadow.me.uk/index.php/Main/EmmanuelSchoolsFoundation > > I think that we need to get as much info as we can on this. > > I have a quick uestion for Stefan (perhaps Marc can answer it) - What > does PTE stand for? > > If anyone wants to edit or add to the info directly, let me know and I > will email the keys and simple instructions to use the Wiki. It's dead > easy. > > Roger > Sorry for the delayed reply. PTE = Philosophy Theology and Ethics. 2491 Marc Draco Re: Re: Emmanuel Schools Trust 01/09/2006 16:52:00 another one of those things they have made up presumably... Not exactly one of the 3rs is it! vulcannuk wrote: > > --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com > <BlackShadow%40yahoogroups.com>, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> > wrote: > > > > I've added Stefan's info on creationism In King's to the web site > under > > Emmanuel Schools Trust. see > > > http://www.blackshadow.me.uk/index.php/Main/EmmanuelSchoolsFoundation > <http://www.blackshadow.me.uk/index.php/Main/EmmanuelSchoolsFoundation> > > > > I think that we need to get as much info as we can on this. > > > > I have a quick uestion for Stefan (perhaps Marc can answer it) - > What > > does PTE stand for? > > > > If anyone wants to edit or add to the info directly, let me know > and I > > will email the keys and simple instructions to use the Wiki. It's > dead > > easy. > > > > Roger > > > > Sorry for the delayed reply. PTE = Philosophy Theology and Ethics. > > 2492 Marc Draco Re: People who take a flu jab should sign..... 01/09/2006 16:46:00 They get round it using the idea that micro-evolution does occur but that the world "as we know it" was created. They always have a get out. :0( vulcannuk wrote: > > That they believe in evolution. Think about it, how can all these > creationists actually have flu jabs when they don't believe that the > virus can actually mutate, evolve and adapt? I say we lobby for it! > > Heres where I got the idea from: http://www.youtube.com/watch? > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?> > v=N4DJznVkFfU > > Stefan > > 2493 oeditor Re: People who take a flu jab should sign..... 01/09/2006 17:05:00 --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "vulcannuk" <vulcannuk@...> wrote: > > Think about it, how can all these > creationists actually have flu jabs when they don't believe that the > virus can actually mutate, evolve and adapt? They don't just lie to everyone else, they lie to themselves. So they say that goddidit 6000 years ago and there's no evolution. Then having painted themselves into a corner, they admit to what they call "microevolution" and lump bacterial and viral mutations in with that. Just as a cop-out, of course. Staying truer to their convictions, they sometimes argue that all the necessary stuff for variation has always been there in the original virus, it's just that different bits of it show themselves in different strains. You know, same as the way the god gave them enzymes to digest nylon 5900 years before nylon was invented by man. But yes, let them have flu :-)) Brian 2494 Roger Stanyard Re: People who take a flu jab should sign..... 01/09/2006 21:12:00 --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "vulcannuk" <vulcannuk@...> wrote: > > That they believe in evolution. Think about it, how can all these > creationists actually have flu jabs when they don't believe that the > virus can actually mutate, evolve and adapt? I say we lobby for it! > > Heres where I got the idea from: http://www.youtube.com/watch? > v=N4DJznVkFfU > I would like to say that so many of them are pig ignorant that it shouldn't surprise anyone. But that doesn't really stack up because Nigel Burn (who I have just posted a bit on), like it or not, has had a very successful career. Still, I've also just been in a "debate" with a fundie who believes that measles is prevented by antibiotics. Heaven help his family! He doesn't actually know what a virus is but claims to have a scientific education. One wonders just what the likes of Bluecoat school and the Vardy schools are turning out. Sooner or later someone is going to die as a consequence. 2495 Roger Stanyard Ken Ham Welcoming Committee 02/09/2006 10:50:00 Ken Ham was received by the welcoming committee of the Leicester Secular Society yesterday when he went to the city's main university. George Jellis ended up having an argument with him. There was a turnout of about six by the committee. George is going to write something up for his own organisation's blog. I missed the event because I got caught up in a monumental dead-stop 15 mile long traffic jam outside of Oxford. Roger 2496 Mikey Brass Re: Ken Ham Welcoming Committee 02/09/2006 11:10:00 Roger Stanyard wrote: > Ken Ham was received by the welcoming committee of the Leicester > Secular Society yesterday when he went to the city's main university. > George Jellis ended up having an argument with him. Did Jellis do a Buzz Aldrid impression? grins hopefully 2497 vulcannuk Really good site 02/09/2006 12:18:00 I am un-sure if you all know about this site or not, but I have to say it is really, really good (considering its American!). They've also produced some marvellous video's - Why the bible is repulsive and why nobody can get into heaven are particularly good. Take a look: http://www.godisimaginary.com/ 2498 Ian Lowe RE: Really good site 02/09/2006 14:12:00 The same guy is responsible for another great site: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/ It's basically examining the point Richard Dawkins made at Lourdes - "miracle" healings are always something internal, hard to verify or a matter of personal feeling - never something like regrowing an amputated limb. Essentially, I see creationism as a special case of this larger movement - a great many people who consider themselves christian don't actually believe that any of the supposed miracles are anything more than metaphor or stories told for effect. As people become better educated, religion which relies on belief in the supernatural becomes less and less acceptable - people just don't believe in claptrap like noah's ark, the virgin birth, walking on water etc etc any more. Hell, most people who call themselves christians are simply unaware of the barbaric laws proscribed by the bible any more. They simply haven't read the thing! The creationists are stuck in an ever diminishing backwater, and their only hope is to attack education and science - an uneducated, superstitious population is exactly what these people want, because anyone who has been educated or who thinks in a scientific way will not accept this stuff without thinking. I. -----Original Message----- From: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com [BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vulcannuk Sent: 02 September 2006 12:19 To: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com Subject: [BlackShadow] Really good site I am un-sure if you all know about this site or not, but I have to say it is really, really good (considering its American!). They've also produced some marvellous video's - Why the bible is repulsive and why nobody can get into heaven are particularly good. Take a look: http://www.godisimaginary.com/ 2499 Roger Stanyard Viz Magazine 02/09/2006 14:34:00 If anyone is interested there is a spoof in the latest issue of Viz on Rory Alec, head of God TV, and Roger Mellie. I have only glanced at it but being a long time Viz fan, I suspect it is pretty witty. I take Alec and Mellie to be two of a kind! PS, any ideas when Sidney Smutt will ever get his end away? Roger 2500 George Jelliss Re: Ken Ham Welcoming Committee 02/09/2006 18:47:00 --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Mikey Brass <michael.brass@...> wrote: > > Roger Stanyard wrote: > > Ken Ham was received by the welcoming committee of the Leicester > > Secular Society yesterday when he went to the city's main university. > > George Jellis ended up having an argument with him. > > Did Jellis do a Buzz Aldrid impression? grins hopefully > I'm not sure what the reference is to here, presumably you mean Buzz Aldrin the astronaut? But what did he do that I should emulate! I posted a report on our encounter with Ken Ham on Blackshadow earlier today, but it has not appeared. I keep getting a message that the Blackshadow site is "temporarily unobtainable". Meanwhile I posted an account on the Secularists (UK) forum, so I refer you to that: http://z6.invisionfree.com/Secularists_UK/ See the News section. Edit Source Backlinks List Group
Creationism – Countering Biblical Irrationalism in Our Schools & Society