2401
Lenny Flank
Re: Re: Newton was a Fundie!
25/08/2006 04:57:00
> > (snicker) (giggle)
>
Creationists sure are an unoriginal lot, aren't they.
===================================
Lenny Flank
"There are no loose threads in the web of life"
Creation "Science" Debunked
http://www.geocities.com/lflank
My Reptile Page
http://www.geocities.com/lflank/herp.html
2402
Mikey Brass
Re: Re: Newton was a Fundie!
25/08/2006 07:15:00
Nick & Moira Cowan wrote:
> --- Roger Stanyard <roger@dttconsulting.fsnet.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> So, Nick, how does this open the door for teaching
>> creationism in
>> chemistry lessons?
>
> I don't teach religion* in my Chemistry lessons - they
> are for science not faith.
Why do you promote your own creationist views to your pupils in the
classroom?
> No swearing please, or I'll report you to the
> moderator
O boo hoo hoo *and passes a tissue*
> It is, of course, the key to a controversy
Do enlighten us ignorants on the "scientific controversy"... Come on,
the floor is yours...
--
Best, Mikey Brass
MA in Archaeology degree, University College London
"The Antiquity of Man" http://www.antiquityofman.com
Book: "The Antiquity of Man: Artifactual, fossil and gene records explored"
- !ke e: /xarra //ke
("Diverse people unite": Motto of the South African Coat of Arms, 2002)
2403
Mikey Brass
Re: Re: Newton was a Fundie!
25/08/2006 07:17:00
Nick & Moira Cowan wrote:
> I also refer to the THEORY of evolution (as
> opposed to its widespread misrepresentation as a
> fact/Law).
Evolution is *both* a fact and a theory.
Do you really expect anyone to take your nutty views seriously when you
cannot even gets the basics right *rhetorical*
--
Best, Mikey Brass
MA in Archaeology degree, University College London
"The Antiquity of Man" http://www.antiquityofman.com
Book: "The Antiquity of Man: Artifactual, fossil and gene records explored"
- !ke e: /xarra //ke
("Diverse people unite": Motto of the South African Coat of Arms, 2002)
2404
Mikey Brass
Re: Newton was a Fundie!
25/08/2006 07:27:00
Nick & Moira Cowan wrote:
> --- Mikey Brass <michael.brass@uclmail.net> wrote:
>
>> Now...about the Flood level?
>
> Good to see that you're taking the Flood seriously at
> last!
Show me the Flood level at Uan Tabu, Nabta Playa, Hierakonpolis... ?
Such a worldwide flood would leave a VERY large aeolian layer... Where
is it at those sites? Need any references to the publication reports to
help you look?
--
Best, Mikey Brass
MA in Archaeology degree, University College London
"The Antiquity of Man" http://www.antiquityofman.com
Book: "The Antiquity of Man: Artifactual, fossil and gene records explored"
- !ke e: /xarra //ke
("Diverse people unite": Motto of the South African Coat of Arms, 2002)
2405
Roger Stanyard
Re: Newton was a Fundie!
25/08/2006 08:03:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Nick & Moira Cowan
<m_cowan32@...> wrote:
>
>
> >
> Sure, I do teach that some people have faith in an old
> earth. I also refer to the THEORY of evolution (as
> opposed to its widespread misrepresentation as a
> fact/Law). It's a good time too, to debunk (grin) the
> myth that radiometric dating provides "proof" of an
> old earth. Most 14-18 year-olds have been brainwashed
> into thinking that carbon-14 dating is compatible with
> ages of millions (or worse; billions) of years.
> I really enjoy this part of the syllabus - you should
> sit in on some of the lessons where we do some simple
> calculations!
>
Now this is very baad science indeed, which questions you very
competence.
> Of course I do have to tell them that if they want to
> know what I personally believe, they'll have to come
> to the (voluntary) Christian Union meetings at
> lunchtime. Mustn't bring religion into science classes
> now, must I?
>
So, you are using the Christion Union to tell them that their
biology, geology and geography teachers are wrong?
> Regards, Nick (not a Christian Scientist) Cowan.
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail -
quick, easy and free. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/trueswitch2.html
>
2406
Roger Stanyard
Re: Newton was a Fundie!
25/08/2006 08:09:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Nick & Moira Cowan
<m_cowan32@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- Roger Stanyard <roger@...>
> wrote:
>
> > So, Nick, how does this open the door for teaching
> > creationism in
> > chemistry lessons?
>
> I don't teach religion* in my Chemistry lessons - they
> are for science not faith.
>
> (* "religion" here includes creationism - I tell them
> they need to attend Christian Union for that - also
> evolutionism/scientism/atheism/naturalism/materialism
> .......... continued - page 94)
>
> > Or are you just talking b******t?
>
> No swearing please, or I'll report you to the
> moderator who has made it quite clear that.... oh,
> sorry - it seems that it IS OK to swear at fundies!
>
> > Why, if it does not open the door, was it put in
> > there in the first
> > place?
>
> Maybe it put itself there. Maybe it just evolved.
> (snicker) (giggle)
>
> It is, of course, the key to a controversy that needs
> illuminating, as the AQA (and increasing numbers of
> our university students) have recognised.
>
> Why do you prefer to keep young minds in darkness?
>
So, er, its for you and other fundamentalists to decide what they are
taught in schools? Howcome, then, they are our children, not yours?
The public doesn't matter then?
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail -
quick, easy and free. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/trueswitch2.html
>
2407
Mikey Brass
Re: Re: Newton was a Fundie!
25/08/2006 10:10:00
Roger Stanyard wrote:
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Nick & Moira Cowan
> <m_cowan32@...> wrote:
>>
>> Sure, I do teach that some people have faith in an old
>> earth. I also refer to the THEORY of evolution (as
>> opposed to its widespread misrepresentation as a
>> fact/Law). It's a good time too, to debunk (grin) the
>> myth that radiometric dating provides "proof" of an
>> old earth. Most 14-18 year-olds have been brainwashed
>> into thinking that carbon-14 dating is compatible with
>> ages of millions (or worse; billions) of years.
>> I really enjoy this part of the syllabus - you should
>> sit in on some of the lessons where we do some simple
>> calculations!
>>
> Now this is very baad science indeed, which questions you very
> competence.
14C dating demonstrates conclusively that the earth is older than 6000
years. However, it is *radiometric* dating as a whole which demonstrates
deep time depth. The above from Cowan shows he is *deliberately*
confusing the issues for his students. That is unacceptable, in
deliberate contravention of the principles of good teaching, arrogant
and would, if I had a child in his classroom, be grounds for a lengthy
and continuous complaint to the local education authority.
2408
Rudy Vonk
Re: Newton was a Fundie!
25/08/2006 10:33:00
On 25 ago 2006, at 03:35, Nick & Moira Cowan wrote:
> Amazing how devastating flood/running water can be! It
> cut the Grand Canyon in a matter of weeks (that's why
> the Colorado River runs there today).
Isn't this sufficient to have Nick certified?
cellpadding="2"
Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored]
2409
oeditor
Trinity GCSE passes fall
25/08/2006 10:34:00
"Flagship' city academy defends fall in pass rate
James Reed
Education Correspondent
THE Government's flagship city academy policy faced fresh questions
last night after it emerged the first one built in Yorkshire saw its
GCSE pass rate drop yesterday compared with the "failing" school it
replaced a year ago."
http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=55&ArticleID=1719865
= http://tinyurl.com/gazvw
"Trinity Academy, built at a cost of £25m, saw just over 34 per cent
of its students gain at least five C grades. When Thorne Grammar, the
comprehensive school it replaced, closed last August its headline pass
rate was just over 35 per cent.
The academy yesterday insisted the results actually represented a
significant success as the students involved had not been predicted to
do as well as they had."
Brian
2410
Marc Draco
Re: Re: creationist schedules
25/08/2006 11:36:00
"Yep, looked at it last year and it's a great idea. Who pays?" - Roger
Stanyard.
No one - right now. They are presumably paying shedloads right now (one
expert thinks millions) to launch the site and are risking everything to
get it up there and *then* start charging for adverts, etc. Loss leading
is an age-old tradition. Look at lastminute.com that awful woman behind
it made a fortune while it continued to lose money hand-over-fist and it
was only after she left, IIRC that it actually got into the black. And
even then, if it hadn't caught the public's imagination AND been funded
to the hilt by the very rich, it would have vanished overnight.
Media is the key here, Roger.
According to most stories the "one red paperclip" guy swapped a house
for a paperclip. Only he didn't. He swapped a paperclip for a whole
bunch of things along the way and - most importantly, I read - he got
THE USE of a house for a year. The truth is rather different from what
appeared in most of the headlines - and even some of the stories. Even
if no one said he got a house to own, most people inferred it. Like
creationists, even his blog is full of hyperbole and misdirection.
http://oneredpaperclip.blogspot.com/
Like good surfers, we should ride the YouTube wave while it's free - you
can guarantee the other side will sooner or later.
Roger Stanyard wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
> <BlackShadow%40yahoogroups.com>, Marc Draco <midnight.diamond@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Ya know. I think we need to do webcasts. All this discussion is fine
> and
> > nice but Ham is out there spreading the bullshit thicker than clotted
> > cream on a Devonshire scone.
>
> Yep, looked at it last year and it's a great idea. Who pays?
>
>
2411
oeditor
Re: Newton was a Fundie!
25/08/2006 12:07:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Nick & Moira Cowan <m_cowan32@...>
wrote:
>
> Amazing how devastating flood/running water can be! It
> cut the Grand Canyon in a matter of weeks (that's why
> the Colorado River runs there today). You should check
> out the research of Dr. Steve Austin on the effects of
> the Mount St. Helens catastrophe - good to have a
> recent mini-flood to study!
>
Not that tired old nonsense again. You can see it debunked (along with
the extrapolation from Mt. St. Helens) detail by detail - and by a
fellow creatonsist too - at
http://www.answersincreation.org/print/gcbookreview.pdf
Have fun(dy),
Brian
2412
Roger Stanyard
Re: creationist schedules
25/08/2006 12:36:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Marc Draco <midnight.diamond@...>
wrote:
>
> "Yep, looked at it last year and it's a great idea. Who pays?" -
Roger
> Stanyard.
>
> No one - right now. They are presumably paying shedloads right now
(one
> expert thinks millions) to launch the site and are risking
everything to
> get it up there and *then* start charging for adverts, etc. Loss
leading
> is an age-old tradition.
What is to stop us doing something very simple with a camcorder? It
needs space on a server to store the recordings but that's not beyond
us. I've been on TV several times and have some basic training at
presentation (years ago, I may add) but I can brush up on that and
direct others in the group to any guides, etc.. I'm told that I come
over quite well on the box. Presumably others in here have been on
the box know a few tricks from experience.
Presumably several in this group have camcorders to make their own
presentations so we could have a good team effort and a variety of
positions on issues depending on our backgrounds?
Any ideas, comments, everyone?
Roger
PS: Still no replies from Andy Shill!
> > > Ya know. I think we need to do webcasts. All this discussion is
fine
> > and
> > > nice but Ham is out there spreading the bullshit thicker than
clotted
> > > cream on a Devonshire scone.
> >
> > Yep, looked at it last year and it's a great idea. Who pays?
> >
> >
>
2413
Marc Draco
Re: Re: Newton was a Fundie!
25/08/2006 20:20:00
Not meaning to employ a pun, but couldn't you start a class action?
>
> >>
> 14C dating demonstrates conclusively that the earth is older than 6000
> years. However, it is *radiometric* dating as a whole which demonstrates
> deep time depth. The above from Cowan shows he is *deliberately*
> confusing the issues for his students. That is unacceptable, in
> deliberate contravention of the principles of good teaching, arrogant
> and would, if I had a child in his classroom, be grounds for a lengthy
> and continuous complaint to the local education authority.
>
>
2414
Marc Draco
Re: Re: Newton was a Fundie!
25/08/2006 20:19:00
Not meaning to employ a pun, but couldn't you start a class action?
Mikey Brass wrote:
>
> Roger Stanyard wrote:
> > --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
> <BlackShadow%40yahoogroups.com>, Nick & Moira Cowan
> > <m_cowan32@...> wrote:
> >>
> >> Sure, I do teach that some people have faith in an old
> >> earth. I also refer to the THEORY of evolution (as
> >> opposed to its widespread misrepresentation as a
> >> fact/Law). It's a good time too, to debunk (grin) the
> >> myth that radiometric dating provides "proof" of an
> >> old earth. Most 14-18 year-olds have been brainwashed
> >> into thinking that carbon-14 dating is compatible with
> >> ages of millions (or worse; billions) of years.
> >> I really enjoy this part of the syllabus - you should
> >> sit in on some of the lessons where we do some simple
> >> calculations!
> >>
> > Now this is very baad science indeed, which questions you very
> > competence.
>
> 14C dating demonstrates conclusively that the earth is older than 6000
> years. However, it is *radiometric* dating as a whole which demonstrates
> deep time depth. The above from Cowan shows he is *deliberately*
> confusing the issues for his students. That is unacceptable, in
> deliberate contravention of the principles of good teaching, arrogant
> and would, if I had a child in his classroom, be grounds for a lengthy
> and continuous complaint to the local education authority.
>
>
2415
Mikey Brass
Re: Re: Newton was a Fundie!
25/08/2006 20:53:00
Lawsuits are the last resort.
2416
Marc Draco
Re: Newton was a Fundie!
25/08/2006 23:31:00
Rudy Vonk wrote:
> On 25 ago 2006, at 03:35, Nick & Moira Cowan wrote:
>
> Amazing how devastating flood/running water can be! It
> cut the Grand Canyon in a matter of weeks (that's why
> the Colorado River runs there today).
>
>
> Isn't this sufficient to have Nick certified?
No, it just proves he's a fucking idiot.
2417
Marc Draco
Re: Re: creationist schedules
27/08/2006 14:25:00
YouTube has the server mate. All you need is the video and you're set! ;-)
Scripting is another matter.
Roger Stanyard wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
> <BlackShadow%40yahoogroups.com>, Marc Draco <midnight.diamond@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > "Yep, looked at it last year and it's a great idea. Who pays?" -
> Roger
> > Stanyard.
> >
> > No one - right now. They are presumably paying shedloads right now
> (one
> > expert thinks millions) to launch the site and are risking
> everything to
> > get it up there and *then* start charging for adverts, etc. Loss
> leading
> > is an age-old tradition.
>
> What is to stop us doing something very simple with a camcorder? It
> needs space on a server to store the recordings but that's not beyond
> us. I've been on TV several times and have some basic training at
> presentation (years ago, I may add) but I can brush up on that and
> direct others in the group to any guides, etc.. I'm told that I come
> over quite well on the box. Presumably others in here have been on
> the box know a few tricks from experience.
>
> Presumably several in this group have camcorders to make their own
> presentations so we could have a good team effort and a variety of
> positions on issues depending on our backgrounds?
>
> Any ideas, comments, everyone?
>
> Roger
>
> PS: Still no replies from Andy Shill!
>
> > > > Ya know. I think we need to do webcasts. All this discussion is
> fine
> > > and
> > > > nice but Ham is out there spreading the bullshit thicker than
> clotted
> > > > cream on a Devonshire scone.
> > >
> > > Yep, looked at it last year and it's a great idea. Who pays?
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
2418
Wilson Alan
RE: Re: Newton was a Fundie!
27/08/2006 22:16:00
----
From: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com [BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nick & Moira Cowan
Sent: 25 August 2006 03:27
To: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [BlackShadow] Re: Newton was a Fundie!
--- oeditor <b-jordan@lineone.net> wrote:
> It's all very confusing. Nick's pdf is actually a
> sample course of
> work for that particular AQA board. The NC itself is
> merely weak
> rather than wrong (see my post 2319). I've tracked
> down the AQA
> syllabus and extracted the evolution and geology
> sections. The latter
> clearly requires Nick Cowan to teach old-Earth
> geology in his
> chemistry classes.
Sure, I do teach that some people have faith in an old
earth. I also refer to the THEORY of evolution (as
opposed to its widespread misrepresentation as a
fact/Law).
It's interesting to hear a chemitry teacher suggesting that the fossil record is only a theory in the same way that god exists only in theory.
It's a good time too, to debunk (grin) the
myth that radiometric dating provides "proof" of an
old earth. Most 14-18 year-olds have been brainwashed
into thinking that carbon-14 dating is compatible with
ages of millions (or worse; billions) of years.
I really enjoy this part of the syllabus - you should
sit in on some of the lessons where we do some simple
calculations!
I do trust that you ido not suggest that carbon dating is the only method used by scientists and that you include the several other dating methods used by showing their remarkable concurrence when dating in your simple calculations?
After all you wouldn't want to fail your pupils by committing errors of omission now would you?
Alan W
Of course I do have to tell them that if they want to
know what I personally believe, they'll have to come
to the (voluntary) Christian Union meetings at
lunchtime. Mustn't bring religion into science classes
now, must I?
Regards, Nick (not a Christian Scientist) Cowan.
__________________________________________________________
Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail - quick, easy and free. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/trueswitch2.html
2419
ukantic
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
28/08/2006 11:50:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "oeditor" <b-jordan@...> wrote:
>
> "Flagship' city academy defends fall in pass rate
> James Reed
> Education Correspondent
> THE Government's flagship city academy policy faced fresh questions
> last night after it emerged the first one built in Yorkshire saw its
> GCSE pass rate drop yesterday compared with the "failing" school it
> replaced a year ago."
>
>
http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=55&ArticleID=1719865
> = http://tinyurl.com/gazvw
"Thorne Grammar's final results were never published and the
Government said it was "complete nonsense" to compare them to
Trinity's achievements."
<Reply> Those that live by the sword die by the sword, & likewise
those whose main justification for allowing fundamentalist fanatics to
take over state schools is higher exam results are left looking pretty
stupid when the results then go down instead!
Would the Government be calling the comparison between results,
"complete nonsense", had the results gone up? Of course they wouldn't!
Instead they would be crowing & using it for justification for handing
even more schools over to creationists.
How can you possibly have any respect for such hypocrites?
It is also worth pointing out that the fundamentalist takeover of
Thorne Grammar School was sold on the back of constant references in
press reports to the fact that Emmanuel College in Gateshead (another
Vardy Foundation School) was achieving 98% - 99% A to C grades in
GCSEs. This was in spite of the fact that there were major differences
between the two schools. Although it was never explicitly stated that
Thorne Grammar School could achieve such results, it was nevertheless
obvious that when comparing the results of the two schools that people
were going to be influenced by Emmanuel College's high figures.
Now, if you want a real example of, "complete nonsense", you need look
no further than that deception.
Incidentally, our local school just achieved its best GCSE results
ever, up 10% on last year to 45%; all done with a bit of hard work &
not a creationist or money wasting bureaucrat in sight.
Alan.
2420
Marc Draco
Re: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
28/08/2006 13:45:00
As an aside. Stefan is of the view that King's are foistng the poor
performers into a special stream that appears to push their results
higher than they are in reality. I'm not 100% sure how this works, but I
expect there's some truth in it.
ukantic wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
> <BlackShadow%40yahoogroups.com>, "oeditor" <b-jordan@...> wrote:
> >
> > "Flagship' city academy defends fall in pass rate
> > James Reed
> > Education Correspondent
> > THE Government's flagship city academy policy faced fresh questions
> > last night after it emerged the first one built in Yorkshire saw its
> > GCSE pass rate drop yesterday compared with the "failing" school it
> > replaced a year ago."
> >
> >
>
http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=55&ArticleID=1719865
>
<http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=55&ArticleID=171986\
5>
> > = http://tinyurl.com/gazvw <http://tinyurl.com/gazvw>
>
> "Thorne Grammar's final results were never published and the
> Government said it was "complete nonsense" to compare them to
> Trinity's achievements."
>
> <Reply> Those that live by the sword die by the sword, & likewise
> those whose main justification for allowing fundamentalist fanatics to
> take over state schools is higher exam results are left looking pretty
> stupid when the results then go down instead!
>
> Would the Government be calling the comparison between results,
> "complete nonsense", had the results gone up? Of course they wouldn't!
> Instead they would be crowing & using it for justification for handing
> even more schools over to creationists.
>
> How can you possibly have any respect for such hypocrites?
>
> It is also worth pointing out that the fundamentalist takeover of
> Thorne Grammar School was sold on the back of constant references in
> press reports to the fact that Emmanuel College in Gateshead (another
> Vardy Foundation School) was achieving 98% - 99% A to C grades in
> GCSEs. This was in spite of the fact that there were major differences
> between the two schools. Although it was never explicitly stated that
> Thorne Grammar School could achieve such results, it was nevertheless
> obvious that when comparing the results of the two schools that people
> were going to be influenced by Emmanuel College's high figures.
>
> Now, if you want a real example of, "complete nonsense", you need look
> no further than that deception.
>
> Incidentally, our local school just achieved its best GCSE results
> ever, up 10% on last year to 45%; all done with a bit of hard work &
> not a creationist or money wasting bureaucrat in sight.
>
> Alan.
>
>
2421
oeditor
Re: Catholics Rethink ID and Creationism
28/08/2006 14:26:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote:
>
> See http://www.beliefnet.com/story/198/story_19838_1.html
>
> It looks as if the Catholic Church may be shifting towards
> creationism/ID.
>
More on this from the Guardian. Probably nothing new, but they sound
pretty convinced:
Pope prepares to embrace theory of intelligent design
John Hooper in Rome
Monday August 28, 2006
The Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1859760,00.html
Brian
2422
vulcannuk
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
28/08/2006 20:56:00
At the kings academy its known as "the kings award" which is
basically where they nudge the thick kids into doing GNVQ's and then
give virtually no support to them. There was also something else
that I found shocking on how they manipulate the statistics from an
old teacher, I've forgetten though. Will try to find out.
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Marc Draco
<midnight.diamond@...> wrote:
>
> As an aside. Stefan is of the view that King's are foistng the
poor
> performers into a special stream that appears to push their
results
> higher than they are in reality. I'm not 100% sure how this works,
but I
> expect there's some truth in it.
>
> ukantic wrote:
> >
> > --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
> > <BlackShadow%40yahoogroups.com>, "oeditor" <b-jordan@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > "Flagship' city academy defends fall in pass rate
> > > James Reed
> > > Education Correspondent
> > > THE Government's flagship city academy policy faced fresh
questions
> > > last night after it emerged the first one built in Yorkshire
saw its
> > > GCSE pass rate drop yesterday compared with the "failing"
school it
> > > replaced a year ago."
> > >
> > >
> > http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?
SectionID=55&ArticleID=1719865
> > <http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?
SectionID=55&ArticleID=1719865>
> > > = http://tinyurl.com/gazvw <http://tinyurl.com/gazvw>
> >
> > "Thorne Grammar's final results were never published and the
> > Government said it was "complete nonsense" to compare them to
> > Trinity's achievements."
> >
> > <Reply> Those that live by the sword die by the sword, & likewise
> > those whose main justification for allowing fundamentalist
fanatics to
> > take over state schools is higher exam results are left looking
pretty
> > stupid when the results then go down instead!
> >
> > Would the Government be calling the comparison between results,
> > "complete nonsense", had the results gone up? Of course they
wouldn't!
> > Instead they would be crowing & using it for justification for
handing
> > even more schools over to creationists.
> >
> > How can you possibly have any respect for such hypocrites?
> >
> > It is also worth pointing out that the fundamentalist takeover of
> > Thorne Grammar School was sold on the back of constant
references in
> > press reports to the fact that Emmanuel College in Gateshead
(another
> > Vardy Foundation School) was achieving 98% - 99% A to C grades in
> > GCSEs. This was in spite of the fact that there were major
differences
> > between the two schools. Although it was never explicitly stated
that
> > Thorne Grammar School could achieve such results, it was
nevertheless
> > obvious that when comparing the results of the two schools that
people
> > were going to be influenced by Emmanuel College's high figures.
> >
> > Now, if you want a real example of, "complete nonsense", you
need look
> > no further than that deception.
> >
> > Incidentally, our local school just achieved its best GCSE
results
> > ever, up 10% on last year to 45%; all done with a bit of hard
work &
> > not a creationist or money wasting bureaucrat in sight.
> >
> > Alan.
> >
> >
>
2423
Roger Stanyard
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 10:24:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "vulcannuk" <vulcannuk@...> wrote:
>
> At the kings academy its known as "the kings award" which is
> basically where they nudge the thick kids into doing GNVQ's and then
> give virtually no support to them. There was also something else
> that I found shocking on how they manipulate the statistics from an
> old teacher, I've forgetten though. Will try to find out.
>
Interesting stuff Stefan. Looks like another example of "fundies lie,
of necessity, habitually and repeatedly".
I have a question for you which relates to a very big concern I have
about Vardy schools.
I gather that in at least Emmanuel College, students in the 6th form
are required to take a compulsory course in ethics, morality and
philosophy but the course is not examined.
That means it can be used to rubbish science and push creationism - it
does not have to meet any standards laid down by the NC or any syllabus
from the examaining boards. In fact, what is taught is thus not in the
public domain.
Is this course compulsory at Kings and Trinity. Does it push
creationism/ID?
It looks to me as little more than a compulsory Christian Union. The
Christian Institute pushes hard for the formation of Christian Unions
in schools.
It has been one of my big worries that fundies will always find a back-
door to push creationism and rubbish science in schools.
Indeed, I have long concluded that their game isn't to show science is
wrong. They can't and they know it. Their game is to undermine it -
cast doubt if you like - to open the door to sell their abomination of
a religion, evangelical fundamentalism.
Indeed, the whole Vardy game is nothing to do with science. It's social
re-engineering with a clique of unelected fundies in charge using other
peoples' money.
I would like to post you reply on out web site, btw.
Roger
Message to Marc: a cheque is in the post. I forget to get the act
together last week.
2424
Roger Stanyard
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 10:34:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "vulcannuk" <vulcannuk@...> wrote:
>
> At the kings academy its known as "the kings award" which is
> basically where they nudge the thick kids into doing GNVQ's and
then
> give virtually no support to them. There was also something else
> that I found shocking on how they manipulate the statistics from an
> old teacher, I've forgetten though. Will try to find out.
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Marc Draco
> <midnight.diamond@> wrote:
> >
> > As an aside. Stefan is of the view that King's are foistng the
> poor
> > performers into a special stream that appears to push their
> results
> > higher than they are in reality. I'm not 100% sure how this
works,
> but I
> > expect there's some truth in it.
I am completly out of my depth on this one but presumably the
headline results of a school only show the percentage pass rate
amongst students taking GCSEs and A levels, not the percentage of all
students at 16 and 18.
(Dunno about the others in this group but I took O levels and A
levels at 15 and 17 as well as 16 and 18 - how is that accounted for
in the headline statistics.)
If they are taking other qualifications, they are not included and,
in effect, are ghost students as far as headline statistics go.
2425
Ian Lowe
RE: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 10:41:00
> Indeed, I have long concluded that their game isn't to show science is
wrong. They can't and they know it. Their game is to undermine it -
cast doubt if you like - to open the door to sell their abomination of
a religion, evangelical fundamentalism.
Seems a good point to highlight the wedge document again:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy
These people see trashing Science's authority in the public square as key to
their longer term goals.
I.
2426
vulcannuk
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 12:38:00
Roger,
Yes, sixth formers do have to attend the PTE classes and your
absolutley correct about their beeing no examinations. The most
worrying aspect however is that it is the same case for the younger
children who really don't have much defence agaisnt their propaganda.
I also think that you are spot on in your assertion that they are
trying undermine science. It seems that we are constantly becoming
Americanized in every aspect possable. This to me though is indeed
the most frightening.
I don't think we are approaching the matter properly though. At the
moment we are generally useless. What we need is a publicity
campaign, infroming people, and I don't just mean the educated
people who read the guardian, but the people who are in ignorance of
the subject what is going on. We need to expand our coverage
nationally. I think a major problem is that we are all so far apart.
I propose that we create our own organization that is run locally
but has its headquarters with Roger. This way I believe that we can
not only organize campaigns easier but also attract more members who
can actually be involved. Lets create our manifesto and do it!
Stefan.
2427
Roger Stanyard
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 13:25:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "vulcannuk" <vulcannuk@...> wrote:
>
nationally. I think a major problem is that we are all so far apart.
>
> I propose that we create our own organization that is run locally
> but has its headquarters with Roger. This way I believe that we can
> not only organize campaigns easier but also attract more members
who
> can actually be involved. Lets create our manifesto and do it!
>
> Stefan.
Yep, I agree with that; it makes a lot of sense and people locally
have a lot more info as to what is going on on the ground, so to
speak.
That's why I have offered to come up to you part of the world on a
demo and have put a check in the post.
Likewise with George and his welcoming committee for Ken Ham.
Same with Ian in Scotland if need be some time in the future.
I am very suspect about running something that just exists in
cyberspace. I think it is essential that we get to press the flesh
with each other from time to time and that can only be done on a
regional basis.
Moreover, pressing the flesh, I guess, is a good way of recruiting or
getting committment.
SJS has had two bashes in London but it is wholly unrealistic to
expect people from outside of a couple of hours journey time to
attend these.
We've all got full time jobs and travel also costs a lot of money,
especially if it requires meals, overnight stays or a bit of
socialising.
In a sense, Stefan, you already have a local North
East/Tyneside/Wearside/Teeside ad hoc group in the form of yourself,
Marc and Alan. I've tried for a local group round my part of the
world and I basically now have two other people to call upon, one
with very specific and useful local knowledge. I've done it by
actually meeting the two involved. It makes a vast difference.
Peter hearty has tried it with the NSS but found it wanting, though.
My guess is that Peter got pee'd off with the NSS in general. He told
me that it was all chiefs and no injuns. (I'm not that familiar with
it and can't really confirm that).
Methinks that something that is based on just injuns, with a bit of
time added to be chief as need be from time to time, is a far sounder
proposition. In this game it is the injuns that act who get things
done.
The non-paid element of the anti-creatinist movement in the UK is
probably no more that about 150 people and 80% of those are just
cheerleaders. There is not much room for many chiefs.
All we have in the paid element in the UK is Dawkin's nascent
organisation and the Royal Association although I gather from Brian
that the British Association is now doing something.
Now would anyyone like to volunteer to produce our manifesto? I can
direct you towards a template if need be.
Roger
2428
Roger Stanyard
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 13:57:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Lowe" <ian@...> wrote:
>
> > Indeed, I have long concluded that their game isn't to show
science is
> wrong. They can't and they know it. Their game is to undermine it -
> cast doubt if you like - to open the door to sell their abomination
of
> a religion, evangelical fundamentalism.
>
>
> Seems a good point to highlight the wedge document again:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy
>
> These people see trashing Science's authority in the public square
as key to
> their longer term goals.
Additional comment: Over on Panda's Thumb they are presenting the
evidence that the DIers are now basically giving up on science and
have started attacking Darwinism on political and moral grounds -
that it led to Nazi Germany. One of the nutters they quote has
basically stated in public that "no Darwin = no Hitler"
How do we fight that? They have just re-set the terms of the agenda.
As I say, they will always get creationism into schools by the
backdoor no matter what we do about science. This time its through
history lessons.
I said all this months back and even wrote an article on the history
aspect a couple of weeks back that got posted in SJS.
2429
Ian Lowe
RE: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 13:51:00
> I am very suspect about running something that just exists in
cyberspace. I think it is essential that we get to press the flesh
with each other from time to time and that can only be done on a
regional basis.
Likewise.
I'm hoping to be down in Kent on business in a couple of weeks (dates not
arranged yet) - I'll make sure I get a hire car and see if we can meet up.
>My guess is that Peter got pee'd off with the NSS in general. He told
me that it was all chiefs and no injuns. (I'm not that familiar with
it and can't really confirm that).
Sounds about right. Their hearts are in the right place, and we would be in
a much worse position if it wasn't for their campaigning in Westminster, but
they have their own way of doing things that isn't very member friendly.
> Now would anyyone like to volunteer to produce our manifesto? I can
direct you towards a template if need be.
I'm a bit busy for a couple of days, but if you don't get another volunteer,
I'll have a go.
I.
2430
Roger Stanyard
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 14:17:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Lowe" <ian@...> wrote:
>
> > I am very suspect about running something that just exists in
> cyberspace. I think it is essential that we get to press the flesh
> with each other from time to time and that can only be done on a
> regional basis.
>
> Likewise.
>
> I'm hoping to be down in Kent on business in a couple of weeks
(dates not
> arranged yet) - I'll make sure I get a hire car and see if we can
meet up.
>
Ian,
We might be able to kill the proverbial three birds with one stone.
Two of the leading lights in SJS live in (or near) Faversham in Kent.
It might be a very good idea if all of us could meet up together. I
can make it down to Kent by train if need be.
If you can be a bit more precise about dates, I try and get things
sorted for a meet between us.
SJS were talking about a meet at Darwin's Down House in September but
I think that has fallen by the wayside.
Thanks for the manifesto offer. I do need some help. I have had a bit
of spare time this month but work is due to get very busy from next
week.
Roger
2431
Roger Stanyard
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 14:26:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "vulcannuk" <vulcannuk@...> wrote:
>
> Roger,
>
> Yes, sixth formers do have to attend the PTE classes and your
> absolutley correct about their beeing no examinations. The most
> worrying aspect however is that it is the same case for the younger
> children who really don't have much defence agaisnt their
propaganda.
>
> I also think that you are spot on in your assertion that they are
> trying undermine science. It seems that we are constantly becoming
> Americanized in every aspect possable. This to me though is indeed
> the most frightening.
>
Hi Stefan,
Sorry to have to labour on this one but we need to get our facts
right abought how creationism is being pushed in Bardyy schools.
Is creationism actually promoted in the PTE classes, either directly
(by saying it is valid science) or indirectly (by saying, for
example, belief in something that contradicts the bible is immoral or
or wrong). Is the theory of evolution mentioned and in what context?
Is it rubbished or is doubt cast upon its scientific validity? Are
they claiming that belief in the theory of evolutions means that you
will go to hell (as Stuart Burgess has told children) or that it
leads to immorality?
Are then any well know creationists that have spoken at King's such
as people from Answers in Genesis or the Christian Institute?
At what age do children start PTE?
Thanks if you can help.
Roger
2432
Ian Lowe
RE: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 14:22:00
>attacking Darwinism on political and moral grounds -
that it led to Nazi Germany. One of the nutters they quote has
basically stated in public that "no Darwin = no Hitler"
How do we fight that? They have just re-set the terms of the agenda.
That's a big tactical mistake by them, and based on a pretty flawed premise.
Hitler was not a Darwinist, far from it.
Hitler's notions of the master race were not in any way inspired by a
"survival of the fittest" concept of evolution or adaptation. If anything,
the concept of the Aryan bloodlines was more like the biblical creationist
model - that humanity started perfect, and everything is a dilution from
that point.
It's also unavoidable that Hitler was a Christian, and spoke at great length
about his work being driven by God. He roundly condemned atheism, and saw
the work of a creator god as self evident.
Unlike the prehistoric past, it's pretty easy to find reliable historical
sources to pull apart this particular delusion. There's even less wiggle
room for them here than in the biological world.
I.
2433
Roger Stanyard
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 14:56:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Lowe" <ian@...> wrote:
>
> >attacking Darwinism on political and moral grounds -
> that it led to Nazi Germany. One of the nutters they quote has
> basically stated in public that "no Darwin = no Hitler"
>
> How do we fight that? They have just re-set the terms of the agenda.
>
>
> That's a big tactical mistake by them, and based on a pretty flawed
premise.
> Hitler was not a Darwinist, far from it.
>
I hope that your are proven right Ian. Panda's Thumb seems to take
the same position as you, that the fundies are shooting themselves in
the foot. I also suspect that it presents a sign of desperation by
the Discovery Institute following Dover.
Roger
2434
oeditor
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 14:58:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote:
>
> Additional comment: Over on Panda's Thumb they are presenting the
> evidence that the DIers are now basically giving up on science and
> have started attacking Darwinism on political and moral grounds -
> that it led to Nazi Germany. One of the nutters they quote has
> basically stated in public that "no Darwin = no Hitler"
>
> How do we fight that? They have just re-set the terms of the agenda.
>
Or have they just retreated several miles? Surely they have now
completely exposed themselves for what they are. They are saying that
anyone who doesn't believe and follow the Bible is evil. Nothing new
there, then. I think they're just consigning thmeselves into a
backwater. He said, hopefully.
I can't get Panda's Thumb, btw - only the Google cache, which just
points back to the original for the posts.
> As I say, they will always get creationism into schools by the
> backdoor no matter what we do about science. This time its through
> history lessons.
Aaah, but I thought it had been decided that history is science ;-)
> I said all this months back and even wrote an article on the history
> aspect a couple of weeks back that got posted in SJS.
All credit where it's due: it's taken me that couple of weeks to
realise just how right you were.
I've noticed that their recent rantings are associating "Darwinism"
with evil or moral degradation but I'd have thought that (outside the
USA?) are just making themselves look silly. I'd have thought also
that their new stance would make the public face of ID almost as bad.
No all-loving all-seeing anthropomorphic creator? Aliens?!?!? My oh
my! Infidels!
Brian
Brian
2435
Martin Young
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 15:00:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote:
> Now would anyyone like to volunteer to produce our manifesto? I can
> direct you towards a template if need be.
Would this be the BCSE manifesto or are you proposing another
on-the-ground type organisation?
If the latter, then I'll have a crack at it. If the former I'll pass
in favour of somebody with more commitment to the umbrella concept.
Cheers,
Martin.
2436
oeditor
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 15:20:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote:
>
>
> I hope that your are proven right Ian. Panda's Thumb seems to take
> the same position as you, that the fundies are shooting themselves in
> the foot. I also suspect that it presents a sign of desperation by
> the Discovery Institute following Dover.
>
OTOH, now I've been able to read the PT post, it's clear that the
DIers are increasingly pushing the claim that "Darwinism" (i.e. E.T.)
as an ideology. I think we have to push the point that it's a
scientific fact (insofar as anything can be) and insists that
evolution be taught in schools. Without argument: since the DIers
withdrawal, Nick Cowan an his ilk are left high and dry on an
antediluvian sandbank.
Brian
2437
Ian Lowe
RE: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 15:19:00
>Unlike the prehistoric past, it's pretty easy to find reliable historical
sources to pull apart this particular delusion. There's even less wiggle
room for them here than in the biological world.
I had a quick hunt through my bookmarks and found this:
"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no
religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious
foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and
religion must be derived from faith . . . we need believing people."
[Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, from a speech made during negotiations
leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant of 1933]
Hitler was clearly in favour of Faith Schools. I had this quote saved away.
Like I said, hitler's view was one of dilution of the perfect blood, not one
of gradual improvement through evolution.
"The state must therefore begin by raising marriage from the level of a
continuous defilement of the race, and give it the consecration of an
institution which is called upon to produce images of the Lord and not
monstrosities halfway between man and ape"
Or this little gem from Mein Kampf:
"Parallel to the training of the body a struggle against the poisoning of
the soul must begin. Our whole public life today is like a hothouse for
sexual ideas and simulations. Just look at the bill of fare served up in our
movies, vaudeville and theaters, and you will hardly be able to deny that
this is not the right kind of food, particularly for the youth...Theater,
art, literature, cinema, press, posters, and window displays must be
cleansed of all manifestations of our rotting world and placed in the
service of a moral, political, and cultural idea."
Just like the Fundies want to do.
"The greatness of Christianity did not lie in attempted negotiations for
compromise with any similar philosophical opinions in the ancient world, but
in its inexorable fanaticism in preaching and fighting for its own
doctrine."
There's a ton more where that came from - and most of his speeches are well
documented in historically verified documents. Heck, there's even film shot
of some of them.
This is good news actually - the Discovery institute will make themselves
look lie morons... and this might also help to de-fang the catholic church's
move.
I.
2438
Roger Stanyard
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 15:33:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Young" <martin@...> wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@> wrote:
> > Now would anyyone like to volunteer to produce our manifesto? I can
> > direct you towards a template if need be.
>
> Would this be the BCSE manifesto or are you proposing another
> on-the-ground type organisation?
>
> If the latter, then I'll have a crack at it. If the former I'll pass
> in favour of somebody with more commitment to the umbrella concept.
>
> Cheers,
> Martin.
I guess we are talking about the on the ground manifesto.
Over to Stefan for comments.
Roger
2439
oeditor
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 16:09:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Lowe" <ian@...> wrote:
>
> >Unlike the prehistoric past, it's pretty easy to find reliable
>historical > sources to pull apart this particular delusion. There's
>even less wiggle > room for them here than in the biological world.
>
An up-hill struggle, though. Searching Google on Hitler +evolution
gets in the first ten links, six associating Hitler with evolution,
four against. The tenth, btw, is a 1999 article by Lenny, so it's not
exactly a new problem. http://www.talkreason.org/articles/Hitler.cfm
A very interesting link argues that Hitler believed in evolution for
all but aryan humans. All the rest of humans were animals, so were
free to have evolved. How long, I wonder, before the cretinists preach
a similar creed, substituting 'christian' for 'aryan'?
http://www.creationtheory.org/Essays/Hitler.shtml which also says
"Virtually all anti-Christian quotes come from Martin Bormann's
"Hitler's Table Talk", an exclusively hearsay compilation of "private"
conversations..."
Brian
2440
Ian Lowe
RE: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 18:16:00
> An up-hill struggle, though.
Hey, Christians lie. Always. They have had fifty years to try to blame
Atheists for the Holocaust, so there's plenty of spew out there.
Thankfully the definitive documents, such as speeches within the Reichstag,
or even Mein Kampf itself are 100% conclusive.
> A very interesting link argues that Hitler believed in evolution for all
but aryan humans. All the rest of humans were animals, so were free to have
evolved. How long, I wonder, before the cretinists preach a similar creed,
substituting 'christian' for 'aryan'?
I am sure I have already seen this said actually - as others have commented,
there are not many black faces in the fundamentalist churches.
Ian.
2441
Mikey Brass
Re: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 18:38:00
oeditor wrote:
> How long, I wonder, before the cretinists preach
> a similar creed, substituting 'christian' for 'aryan'?
I've come across creationist individuals who believe just that.
2442
Mikey Brass
Re: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 18:39:00
oeditor wrote:
> How long, I wonder, before the cretinists preach
> a similar creed, substituting 'christian' for 'aryan'?
I've come across creationist individuals who believe just that.
2443
Rudy Vonk
Re: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 18:55:00
On 29 ago 2006, at 19:38, Mikey Brass wrote:
> oeditor wrote:
> > How long, I wonder, before the cretinists preach
> > a similar creed, substituting 'christian' for 'aryan'?
>
> I've come across creationist individuals who believe just that.
Just explain to them that gypsies are Aryan.
(More accurately, their Romany language is of Indo-Aryan origin.)
cellpadding="2"
Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored]
2444
vulcannuk
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 19:24:00
Creationism is mentioned in BOTH science and PTE lessons (something
which I believe is illegal?). I remember in one of my science
lessons ny teacher (who transferred over from my previous school and
thus was not under the vardy thumb) said that she had to mention
creationism, but she brushed it off as crap. That won't happen in
the future, as all these teachers are slowly going away (infact they
are offered two options 1. Take 3 mounths pay leave immediately and
get a good reference or 2. they will have to fight to keep their
jobs - i know this from an inside contact). PTE is taught from the
moment the kids enter the school. But then what you must also take
into consideration is the bible reading lessons and assembelies on
top of that! As I was only there for one year (and in the highest
year) not much was said in PTE at the time. But I fear this won't be
the case now.
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "vulcannuk" <vulcannuk@> wrote:
> >
> > Roger,
> >
> > Yes, sixth formers do have to attend the PTE classes and your
> > absolutley correct about their beeing no examinations. The most
> > worrying aspect however is that it is the same case for the
younger
> > children who really don't have much defence agaisnt their
> propaganda.
> >
> > I also think that you are spot on in your assertion that they
are
> > trying undermine science. It seems that we are constantly
becoming
> > Americanized in every aspect possable. This to me though is
indeed
> > the most frightening.
> >
> Hi Stefan,
>
> Sorry to have to labour on this one but we need to get our facts
> right abought how creationism is being pushed in Bardyy schools.
>
> Is creationism actually promoted in the PTE classes, either
directly
> (by saying it is valid science) or indirectly (by saying, for
> example, belief in something that contradicts the bible is immoral
or
> or wrong). Is the theory of evolution mentioned and in what
context?
> Is it rubbished or is doubt cast upon its scientific validity? Are
> they claiming that belief in the theory of evolutions means that
you
> will go to hell (as Stuart Burgess has told children) or that it
> leads to immorality?
>
> Are then any well know creationists that have spoken at King's
such
> as people from Answers in Genesis or the Christian Institute?
>
> At what age do children start PTE?
>
> Thanks if you can help.
>
> Roger
>
2445
vulcannuk
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 19:54:00
I'm thinking of creating our own organization thats organized at a
local level. I just can't see us making any impact in our current
circumstances. We need to get organized and bring this arguement to
joe public. Otherwise we're just banging our heads against a cyber
wall while people like Vardy and co are spreading.
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Young" <martin@...> wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@> wrote:
> > Now would anyyone like to volunteer to produce our manifesto? I
can
> > direct you towards a template if need be.
>
> Would this be the BCSE manifesto or are you proposing another
> on-the-ground type organisation?
>
> If the latter, then I'll have a crack at it. If the former I'll pass
> in favour of somebody with more commitment to the umbrella concept.
>
> Cheers,
> Martin.
>
2446
Marc Draco
Re: Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 20:20:00
I'm with Stefan. Who knows when this message will reach him though - it
would be faster to crawl over the road and write it in blood the way
yahoo is going...
I really favour leaving this arena and moving to a proper BBS.
vulcannuk wrote:
>
> I'm thinking of creating our own organization thats organized at a
> local level. I just can't see us making any impact in our current
> circumstances. We need to get organized and bring this arguement to
> joe public. Otherwise we're just banging our heads against a cyber
> wall while people like Vardy and co are spreading.
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
> <BlackShadow%40yahoogroups.com>, "Martin Young" <martin@...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
> <BlackShadow%40yahoogroups.com>, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@> wrote:
> > > Now would anyyone like to volunteer to produce our manifesto? I
> can
> > > direct you towards a template if need be.
> >
> > Would this be the BCSE manifesto or are you proposing another
> > on-the-ground type organisation?
> >
> > If the latter, then I'll have a crack at it. If the former I'll pass
> > in favour of somebody with more commitment to the umbrella concept.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Martin.
> >
>
>
2447
Roger Stanyard
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 22:55:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "vulcannuk" <vulcannuk@...> wrote:
>
> Creationism is mentioned in BOTH science and PTE lessons (something
> which I believe is illegal?). I remember in one of my science
> lessons ny teacher (who transferred over from my previous school
and
> thus was not under the vardy thumb) said that she had to mention
> creationism, but she brushed it off as crap. That won't happen in
> the future, as all these teachers are slowly going away (infact
they
> are offered two options 1. Take 3 mounths pay leave immediately and
> get a good reference or 2. they will have to fight to keep their
> jobs - i know this from an inside contact). PTE is taught from the
> moment the kids enter the school. But then what you must also take
> into consideration is the bible reading lessons and assembelies on
> top of that! As I was only there for one year (and in the highest
> year) not much was said in PTE at the time. But I fear this won't
be
> the case now.
>
Phew! Stefan.
What the Vardy schools look to be doing is highly illegal. This is in
breach of both employment legislation and the human rights act.
Methinks we need to focus on this hard and quickly. Do you have any
other contacts who can give testimony of their first hand experience?
What you also seem to be saying is that the students get a quadruple
does of religion - religious education, bible studies, PTE and
assemblies plus the craplola being pushed in science. Presumbly on
top of this is the local Christian Union and the involvement of
teachers in that as well.
My immediate reaction is that it is no wonder that the two most
recent Vardy schools are having problems with exam results. Student
time is being used to proselytise fundamentalism, not teach.
2448
Roger Stanyard
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 23:00:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Marc Draco <midnight.diamond@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm with Stefan. Who knows when this message will reach him though -
it
> would be faster to crawl over the road and write it in blood the way
> yahoo is going...
>
> I really favour leaving this arena and moving to a proper BBS.
>
Yep, couldn't agree with you more but don't you think there are higher
priorities at present?
2449
oeditor
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 23:19:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote:
> Yep, couldn't agree with you more but don't you think there are higher
> priorities at present?
Yes - setting up a private group where our deiberations aren't
undertaken beneath the spotlights of watching cretinists.
Brian
2450
oeditor
Re: Trinity GCSE passes fall
29/08/2006 23:16:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote:
> Yep, couldn't agree with you more but don't you think there are higher
> priorities at present?
Yes - setting up a private group where our deiberations aren't
undertaken beneath the spotlights of watching cretinists.
Brian