1651
John Germain
Practical Actions
14/07/2006 03:23:00
Alright, my cards are down...
I despise any person who even admits to `worshipping- something.
I can't even make allowances for the "Mainstream"
I am the enemy of anyone as above, since they deny their own powers, subsume
them to
some~thing.. Urrg.
That's just me.
If I can help, I will: believe me, I am not well-favoured in the reportage of my
life, so
don't count on me....!
Your best bet is to leave me out of this, in practical terms.
Defunct Chair C.I. Mensa
Generally Ibidum.
The Defunct bit.
John Germain
Jersey
British Channel Islands
1652
Timothy Chase
Re: Redraft: ATTN Evo Advocates: The UK Needs Your Help
14/07/2006 03:25:00
On 13/07/06, John Germain <jtg.germainsjy@localdial.com> wrote:
>
> "Advocates" with a capital "A", means here exactly as if in (shit, make your
collective
> mind up).....
>
> "The following is addressed to Members of the Jersey Bar and Activists who
will assist
>
> in the defence of evolutionary biology in the United Kingdom...
>
>
> Guys 'n Gals.. THIS whole think needs to be sat down and got pissed with..
>
> PLEASE DON'T jump before you're pushed..
Are you suggesting we think things through first?
1653
John Germain
RE: Redraft: ATTN Evo Advocates: The UK Needs Your Help
14/07/2006 03:32:00
It's a think..
John Germain
Jersey
British Channel Islands
-----Original Message-----
From: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com [BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of
Timothy Chase
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 3:26 AM
To: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [BlackShadow] Redraft: ATTN Evo Advocates: The UK Needs Your Help
On 13/07/06, John Germain <jtg.germainsjy@localdial.com> wrote:
>
> "Advocates" with a capital "A", means here exactly as if in (shit, make your
collective
> mind up).....
>
> "The following is addressed to Members of the Jersey Bar and Activists who
will assist
>
> in the defence of evolutionary biology in the United Kingdom...
>
>
> Guys 'n Gals.. THIS whole think needs to be sat down and got pissed with..
>
> PLEASE DON'T jump before you're pushed..
Are you suggesting we think things through first?
Yahoo! Groups Links
1654
Lenny Flank
Re: Practical Actions
14/07/2006 04:04:00
> I despise any person who even admits to `worshipping- something.
I worship Jessica Alba.
Does that count?
===================================
Lenny Flank
"There are no loose threads in the web of life"
Creation "Science" Debunked
http://www.geocities.com/lflank
My Reptile Page
http://www.geocities.com/lflank/herp.html
1655
Mikey Brass
Re: Redraft: ATTN Evo Advocates: The UK Needs Your Help
14/07/2006 06:41:00
Timothy Chase wrote:
> Their propaganda is claiming that they are winning converts in the
> academia when in reality their academics consist almost entirely of a
> few retired professors who kept their creationist leanings private
> until retirement and crackpots who only claim to have advanced
> degrees. They formed an "ad hoc committee of twenty-seven concerned
> academics" who in reality misrepresented their credentials and
> associations in a letter to Estelle Morris (a leading figure in
> British politics) and formed a well-coordinated front by extremists to
> advocate opening science classes to creationist propaganda and
> indoctrination in the name of "fairness" and "objectivity."
"...British politics). This co-ordinated, fundamentalist front advocates
the opening of science classes to..."
> The Solution: Several existing organisations representing people of
> different political, religious and philosophic views are coming
> together to form a permanent organisation: what will be the nucleus
> of the British equivalent of the National Center for Science
> Education.
Drop "what will be" from the sentence.
1656
Roger Stanyard
Re: Letting Fundamentalists Into the Group
14/07/2006 07:14:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Devers" <ddevers-ct@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm coming down firmly on the 'science' side of the debate, if you're
> contemplating an ideological purge. This forum is interesting, and
I'd like
> to remain a part of it, even if I don't post much.
>
> Douglas Devers
No problem Doug,
Roger
1657
Marc Draco
Re: Re: Increasing Membership, Bringing in Organizations
14/07/2006 09:13:00
bgcolor="#ffffff"
And we could use those skills at NoToAcademies Lenny.
Have a look for the Binvert thread.
Lenny Flank wrote:
->
>
> As for Panda's Thumb, Lenny might be in a better position
Well, this isn't my show to run. It's a British show. I'm just a
source of practical advice as far as organizing and tactics. I've,
uh, done that a few times before. ;>
===================================
Lenny Flank
"There are no loose threads in the web of life"
Creation "Science" Debunked
http://www.geocities.com/lflank
My Reptile Page
http://www.geocities.com/lflank/herp.html
1658
Roger Stanyard
Draft Statement
14/07/2006 12:49:00
I've put together a draft statement of what we are about, based on
what Tim drafted. The draft is below. All and every comment will be
gratefully received. Please, please, feel free to make your opinions
known. This is a collective effort.
Roger
Draft Statement about the British Centre for Science Education
The United Kingdom is faced with a highly organised, well-funded
coalition of fundamentalist Young Earth Creationist groups including
but not limited to Answers in Genesis, the Emmanuel Schools
Foundation, the Christian Institute, Creation Research UK, Genesis
Agendum, the Creation Science Movement and the Biblical Creation
Society.
This creationist movement is receiving money and assistance from
other parts of the world including the United States, through such
organisations and individuals as Answers in Genesis, the Institute
for Creation Research, the Discovery Institute and the billionaire
reclusive Howard Ahmanson, who also funds the Discovery Institute.
The movement receives assistance and support from Australia through
Creation Ministries International and Creation Research International.
The organisations are active in bringing bogus creationist science
into the classrooms of British state schools, frequently and
surreptitiously without the knowledge of parents or local education
authorities. It has long established tactics for infiltration. The
movement has taken full control of three state schools and aims to
control many more. It has the funding to do so.
The objective is to discredit all subjects taught in schools which
contradict the fundamentalist extreme religious opinions of the
movement. The movement is based on the strict literal interpretation
of the bible, most notably that all science must agree with the
opinion that the word was created 6,000-10,000 years ago and that
there were dinosaurs on Noah's Ark. The movement is also promoting
the existence of UFOs and alien abductions and that dinosaurs roamed
the British countryside in Tudor times.
In particular the movement is targeting the teaching of science,
geology and geography in British schools, either directly within the
lessons or through guest speakers and Christian Unions. Their actions
make the teaching of these subjects ineffective with the resultant
failure of pupils to pass their exams.
The position has become so serious that two leading, prestigious,
British universities, Leeds and Leicester, are introducing compulsory
remedial courses to undo the damage done. The credibility of a third,
Bristol, is being seriously damaged by the actions of one of its
staff active in the creationist movement.
Indeed, there is a core of about seven activist fundamentalists
within British universities attempting to discredit subjects taught
there which contradict their religious opinions. Such subjects
include medicine, biology, genetics, microbiology, biochemistry,
physics, astronomy, cosmology, geology, earth sciences, geography,
geophysics, chemistry, archaeology, paleoanthropology, ancient
history, theology and linguistics. These represent a vast area of
higher education and research in the UK.
Moreover, the movement includes extreme political objectives, one of
which is the replacement of democracy with a theocracy based on its
extreme religious opinions. Howard Ahmanson was, for a quarter of a
century, on the board of the Chalcedon Foundation which advocated the
murder of those that disagreed with its fundamentalist religion and
the re-introduction of slavery. Ahmanson funds the Discovery
Institute has a clear agenda to take political power and he is also
deeply involved in the Oxford Centre for Mission Studies.
The movement has clearly adopted techniques of evasion and deception
about its techniques and objectives, following practices developed
within the fundamentalist movement in the United States.
In 2002 a group of 27 fundamentalists in academia, education and
business lobbyed the then Secretary of State for Education, Estelle
Morris, to allow the teaching of creationism in science lessons in
state schools. In a letter to the Secretary of State, made publicly
available, they claimed to be acting as individuals, ad hoc, and gave
their professional positions and the names of the organisations that
employed them, including leading universities. The letter also
claimed that their views did not necessarily represent the
organisations they were associated with.
However, it now transpires this was far from the case. 15 of the 27
were involved in the fundamentalist Biblical Creation Society
including its then head and its now current head. All of the 27 were
involved in at least one, and in many cases, more, of the main
creationist organisations in the country. One was also closely
involved in the Christian Institute which itself has been involved in
and closely associated with the creationist Vardy schools. These
organisations are involved in teaching creationism in schools and
this had a vested interest in its continuance. None of this was
disclosed in the letter either to the Secretary of State or the
public.
Yet this is a major issue of public policy. The creationist movement,
through the academy schools it is sponsoring, is likely to receive
well over £200 million in funding from the taxpaying public, which is
already paying for remedial education in universities as a result of
the actions of creationists.
The British Centre for Science Education is a newly formed group of
individuals which intends to act as an umbrella group to stop the
teaching of creationism in state schools. Its primary role is to act
as an umbrella group to support other groups and individuals with the
same aim and to develop and implement activist tactics. The movement
currently has some 50 members, resident in the UK, North America,
Australia, South Africa and the mainland of Europe. It is currently
open to membership, free of charge, by invitation.
The group is actively building up an intelligence base of the
structure and activities of fundamentalist organisations active in
attempting to teach creationism in schools. This is intended for use
by both the organisations we support, educators, local education
authorities, local and national politicians, students intending to
study at universities with active fundamentalist staff, businesses
recruiting from schools and universities, professional bodies
involved in science and the media.
The individuals involved have, between the, considerable experience
and knowledge of the creationist movement. They are mostly
professional people. Many are experienced activists in their own
right. Their backgrounds include science, business, theology,
education, academia, engineering and research.
We have put together an international group because the creationist
movement itself is international, with strong connections with the
USA and Australia. The universities being affected have strong
international links through students, staff and research. We believe
that the international links considerably strengthens the
organisation in terms of both knowledge and skills.
The movement is set to launch its first campaign to raise awareness
of the problem of creationism in education.
It you wish to join or support the movement, please visit our email
forum and discussion group at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blackshadow.
1659
Lenny Flank
news story
14/07/2006 13:05:00
http://www.blyth-
wansbecktoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=1115&ArticleID=1622960
Foundation puts its case for academy in south east Northumberland
PUPILS being forced to carry bibles in their pockets, a system of
covert selection and the teaching of creationism are 'myths' the
Emmanuel Foundation is keen to dispel as News Post Leader reporter
ANTHONY McLEAN takes a tour of the King's Academy in Middlesbrough
=OPENED in 2003 to replace the Brackenhoe and Coulby Newham secondary
schools, King's Academy in Middlesbrough has doubled student
achievement at GCSE.
But following the launch of a campaign by teaching unions against
plans for an academy in Blyth the Emmanuel Foundation wants to
highlight its success and voice its opinions.
"A lot of the criticism against the foundation comes from people who
read allegations in newspapers but are not actually able to see for
themselves what goes on in our schools," said Nigel McQuoid, the
Emmanuel Foundation's director of schools, who has been vilified in
large sections of the media for his personal religious beliefs.
"But a lot of the allegations are unfounded and pure nonsense and
repeated by people who have their own agenda to push.
"We want to be open and honest and let parents decide for
themselves."
The News Post Leader's invitation to Middlesbrough comes ahead of a
consultation for two academies in Northumberland, with the Emmanuel
Foundation – backed by Christian millionaire Sir Peter Vardy –
expressing an interest in sponsoring a facility in Blyth.
The academy would work alongside Blyth Community College on the old
Ridley High School site.
But the foundation has faced accusations that its pupils are being
taught creationism alongside conventional evolutionary theory, as two
competing faith perspectives.
There has also been criticism of the strict discipline used – as we
walked past one classroom a young girl was being shouted at for not
having her hair tied back.
Mr McQuoid denies the schools teach creationism but is quick to
defend the discipline.
"It is vital that children are taught in the best possible
environment," he said.
"A lot of parents are grateful that their children are disciplined,
they know that troublemaking will not be tolerated at the academy and
this is then reflected in the way children act outside of the
classroom.
"And we just don't teach creationism. If I ask a student if he
believes in God and he says yes just to make me happy, then that
would be a failure.
"If a student comes up to me and explains why he doesn't believe in
God, because there are too many unanswered questions and how there is
too much suffering in the world for a caring God to exist, then I
would think we have succeeded in that child's education.
"We want to encourage students to see the world for themselves and
develop their own beliefs.
"We don't want to preach to them."
Emmanuel's academies have also been accused of operating a system of
covert selection.
Although by law an academy can select up to ten per cent of its
intake the foundation says it does not take up this privilege, and up
to 100 of the 1,250 spaces at King's are reserved for students with
special needs.
However, opponents say the 148 pupils excluded in just six months
from the Trinity Academy in Thorne is evidence of the foundation
expelling hard-to-teach children.
"In the past a school had either suspensions or expulsions," said Mr
McQuoid.
"But now government guidelines class a suspension as a 'fixed-term
exclusion', but this does not mean that every child receiving a fixed-
term exclusion is expelled.
"In Thorne we had 146 fixed-term exclusions for a short period and
only two pupils expelled from the school – one of whom was caught
carrying a knife.
"I would challenge any teacher who said this was not a serious
offence.
"Our critics are welcome to come to any of the schools to see how
they are run.
"We don't want to come to Blyth and say the existing college does
this wrong or are useless at this.
"This is a chance for all of us to work together. We want to work
with Blyth Community College, not compete against them."
A consultation exercise for a planned academy in Blyth is expected to
start in the autumn.
14 July 2006
===================================
Lenny Flank
"There are no loose threads in the web of life"
Creation "Science" Debunked
http://www.geocities.com/lflank
My Reptile Page
http://www.geocities.com/lflank/herp.html
1660
Andrew
Re: Draft Statement
14/07/2006 13:43:00
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Stanyard
This looks good to me on first reading. Very powerful.
A couple of typos I spotted:
> Ahmanson funds the Discovery
> Institute has a clear agenda to take political power
Discovery Institute, which has
> The individuals involved have, between the,
between them,
> We believe
> that the international links considerably strengthens the
> organisation in terms of both knowledge and skills.
strengthen
1661
vulcannuk
Re: news story
14/07/2006 14:15:00
I wish McQouid would stop using this "the critics haven't seen for
themselves" excuse. I have, but whether you have or haven't is
irrelevant. Its the whole scheme of academies that is un-democratic
at its core. Student's making up their own minds? HA! Please,
someone please please tell me how is a 11 year old student supposed
to make a fair assessment on a choice of religion at a school where
its preached non-stop, bibles are in every classroom (of which you
are practically forced to read, trust me on that, I tried to use my
right in staying out of the classroom, they wouldn't have it) and
then effectively, as I have been told by certain previous teachers,
the non-Christian teachers who don't stay in line are effectively
bullied out of a job. Yet, due to a clause in their contract they
are forbidden to comment on the academy. These kids have no defences!
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny Flank" <lflank@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> http://www.blyth-
> wansbecktoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?
SectionID=1115&ArticleID=1622960
>
>
> Foundation puts its case for academy in south east Northumberland
>
> PUPILS being forced to carry bibles in their pockets, a system of
> covert selection and the teaching of creationism are 'myths' the
> Emmanuel Foundation is keen to dispel as News Post Leader reporter
> ANTHONY McLEAN takes a tour of the King's Academy in Middlesbrough
> =OPENED in 2003 to replace the Brackenhoe and Coulby Newham
secondary
> schools, King's Academy in Middlesbrough has doubled student
> achievement at GCSE.
>
> But following the launch of a campaign by teaching unions against
> plans for an academy in Blyth the Emmanuel Foundation wants to
> highlight its success and voice its opinions.
>
> "A lot of the criticism against the foundation comes from people
who
> read allegations in newspapers but are not actually able to see
for
> themselves what goes on in our schools," said Nigel McQuoid, the
> Emmanuel Foundation's director of schools, who has been vilified
in
> large sections of the media for his personal religious beliefs.
>
> "But a lot of the allegations are unfounded and pure nonsense and
> repeated by people who have their own agenda to push.
>
> "We want to be open and honest and let parents decide for
> themselves."
>
> The News Post Leader's invitation to Middlesbrough comes ahead of
a
> consultation for two academies in Northumberland, with the
Emmanuel
> Foundation – backed by Christian millionaire Sir Peter Vardy –
> expressing an interest in sponsoring a facility in Blyth.
>
> The academy would work alongside Blyth Community College on the
old
> Ridley High School site.
>
> But the foundation has faced accusations that its pupils are being
> taught creationism alongside conventional evolutionary theory, as
two
> competing faith perspectives.
>
> There has also been criticism of the strict discipline used – as
we
> walked past one classroom a young girl was being shouted at for
not
> having her hair tied back.
>
> Mr McQuoid denies the schools teach creationism but is quick to
> defend the discipline.
>
> "It is vital that children are taught in the best possible
> environment," he said.
>
> "A lot of parents are grateful that their children are
disciplined,
> they know that troublemaking will not be tolerated at the academy
and
> this is then reflected in the way children act outside of the
> classroom.
>
> "And we just don't teach creationism. If I ask a student if he
> believes in God and he says yes just to make me happy, then that
> would be a failure.
>
> "If a student comes up to me and explains why he doesn't believe
in
> God, because there are too many unanswered questions and how there
is
> too much suffering in the world for a caring God to exist, then I
> would think we have succeeded in that child's education.
>
> "We want to encourage students to see the world for themselves and
> develop their own beliefs.
> "We don't want to preach to them."
>
> Emmanuel's academies have also been accused of operating a system
of
> covert selection.
>
> Although by law an academy can select up to ten per cent of its
> intake the foundation says it does not take up this privilege, and
up
> to 100 of the 1,250 spaces at King's are reserved for students
with
> special needs.
>
> However, opponents say the 148 pupils excluded in just six months
> from the Trinity Academy in Thorne is evidence of the foundation
> expelling hard-to-teach children.
>
> "In the past a school had either suspensions or expulsions," said
Mr
> McQuoid.
>
> "But now government guidelines class a suspension as a 'fixed-term
> exclusion', but this does not mean that every child receiving a
fixed-
> term exclusion is expelled.
>
> "In Thorne we had 146 fixed-term exclusions for a short period and
> only two pupils expelled from the school – one of whom was caught
> carrying a knife.
>
> "I would challenge any teacher who said this was not a serious
> offence.
>
> "Our critics are welcome to come to any of the schools to see how
> they are run.
>
> "We don't want to come to Blyth and say the existing college does
> this wrong or are useless at this.
>
> "This is a chance for all of us to work together. We want to work
> with Blyth Community College, not compete against them."
>
> A consultation exercise for a planned academy in Blyth is expected
to
> start in the autumn.
> 14 July 2006
>
>
>
>
> ===================================
> Lenny Flank
> "There are no loose threads in the web of life"
>
> Creation "Science" Debunked
> http://www.geocities.com/lflank
>
> My Reptile Page
> http://www.geocities.com/lflank/herp.html
>
1662
Martin Young
Re: Draft Statement
14/07/2006 14:23:00
Hi Roger,
To my mind the structure of this is back to front. The key positive
details need to come up front, before the (rather long) explanation.
One has to read through a great deal of text before getting to the nub
of what the BCSE actually is (paragraph 13!). The
knowledgeable anti-creationist will scan over quickly and risk missing
the information whilst the uninitiated may well lose interest before
getting there.
Just duplicating P13 as an inset summary after the title would help
enormously.
Regards,
Martin.
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote:
>
> I've put together a draft statement of what we are about, based on
> what Tim drafted. The draft is below. All and every comment will be
> gratefully received. Please, please, feel free to make your opinions
> known. This is a collective effort.
>
> Roger
1663
Martin Young
Re: Draft Statement
14/07/2006 14:53:00
Hi Roger,
To my mind the structure of this is back to front. The key positive
details need to come up front, before the (rather long) explanation.
One has to read through a great deal of text before getting to the nub
of what the BCSE actually is (which is in paragraph 13!). The
knowledgeable anti-creationist will scan over quickly and risk missing
the information whilst the uninitiated may well lose interest before
getting there.
Just duplicating P13 as an inset summary after the title would help
enormously.
Regards,
Martin.
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote:
>
> I've put together a draft statement of what we are about, based on
> what Tim drafted. The draft is below. All and every comment will be
> gratefully received. Please, please, feel free to make your opinions
> known. This is a collective effort.
>
> Roger
1664
Timothy Chase
Re: Draft Statement
14/07/2006 15:36:00
On 14/07/06, Roger Stanyard <roger@dttconsulting.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I've put together a draft statement of what we are about, based on
> what Tim drafted. The draft is below. All and every comment will be
> gratefully received. Please, please, feel free to make your opinions
> known. This is a collective effort.
>
> Roger
>
> Draft Statement about the British Centre for Science Education
>
> The United Kingdom is faced with a highly organised, well-funded
> coalition of fundamentalist Young Earth Creationist groups including
> but not limited to Answers in Genesis, the Emmanuel Schools
> Foundation, the Christian Institute, Creation Research UK, Genesis
> Agendum, the Creation Science Movement and the Biblical Creation
> Society.
This looks far more professional. I believe I was trying to compress
things into something far too short One thing I was particularly
uncomfortable with was my use of parentheses: the text between the
parentheses was far too long. Additionally, it did not make use of
what you uncovered to nearly the extent that I thought it should, and
it did not include the name of the organization itself as I was
worried that this was still up in the air.
I will feel a great deal more comfortable sending a public statement
if it is something which has been approved by the organization itself
- even if it is simply intended for TalkOrigin.
One question though: how would the young earth creationists distort
geography? I can see how they are targetting the other disciplines,
but geography? One would have to be bonkers.
1665
Andrew
Re: Re: news story
14/07/2006 16:24:00
----- Original Message -----
From: vulcannuk
> I wish McQouid would stop using this "the critics haven't seen for
> themselves" excuse. I have, but whether you have or haven't is
> irrelevant.
True, but it's good to have you here.
Tell it like it is. :) The ones still being subjected to this sytem need
someone to speak for them.
1666
Andrew
Re: Draft Statement
14/07/2006 16:20:00
----- Original Message -----
From: Timothy Chase
> One question though: how would the young earth creationists distort
> geography? I can see how they are targetting the other disciplines,
> but geography? One would have to be bonkers.
Er, yes. :D
Obviously I don't know specifically what Roger had in mind, but presumably
misuse of plate techtonics would come under this heading? (YEC argument
that the animals disembarking from Noah's Ark were able to get to where they
are now because continental drift hadn't yet happened. :D)
There's also the stuff about the mountains being significantly lower, oceans
being shallower etc etc a few thousand years ago, unless that comes under
geology?
1667
Roger Stanyard
Re: Draft Statement
14/07/2006 17:50:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <taoist.hermit1@...> wrote:
>
Thanks Andrew,
Typos corrected.
Roger
1668
Wilson Alan
RE: Draft Statement
14/07/2006 17:43:00
bgcolor="white"
I think the draft is excellent and have
only two suggestions (one trivial and the other may be OTT):
1. Replace the first use of “umbrella”
with “coordinating” or something similar to avoid repetition in:
The British Centre for Science Education is a newly formed group of
individuals which intends to act as an umbrella group to stop the
teaching of creationism in state schools. Its primary role is to act
as an umbrella group to support other groups and individuals with the
same aim and to develop and implement activist tactics.
2. Have the draft reviewed by a lawyer to avoid
the risk of legal action against the group.
Regards,
Alan
----
'From:'
BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com [BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com] 'On Behalf Of 'Roger Stanyard
'Sent:' 14 July 2006 12:49
'To:' BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
'Subject:' [BlackShadow] Draft
Statement
I've put together a draft statement of what we are
about, based on
what Tim drafted. The draft is below. All and every comment will be
gratefully received. Please, please, feel free to make your opinions
known. This is a collective effort.
Roger
Draft Statement about the British Centre for Science Education
The United Kingdom is faced with a highly organised, well-funded
coalition of fundamentalist Young Earth Creationist groups including
but not limited to Answers in Genesis, the Emmanuel Schools
Foundation, the Christian Institute, Creation Research UK, Genesis
Agendum, the Creation Science Movement and the Biblical Creation
Society.
This creationist movement is receiving money and assistance from
other parts of the world including the United States, through such
organisations and individuals as Answers in Genesis, the Institute
for Creation Research, the Discovery Institute and the billionaire
reclusive Howard Ahmanson, who also funds the Discovery Institute.
The movement receives assistance and support from Australia through
Creation Ministries International and Creation Research International.
The organisations are active in bringing bogus creationist science
into the classrooms of British state schools, frequently and
surreptitiously without the knowledge of parents or local education
authorities. It has long established tactics for infiltration. The
movement has taken full control of three state schools and aims to
control many more. It has the funding to do so.
The objective is to discredit all subjects taught in schools which
contradict the fundamentalist extreme religious opinions of the
movement. The movement is based on the strict literal interpretation
of the bible, most notably that all science must agree with the
opinion that the word was created 6,000-10,000 years ago and that
there were dinosaurs on Noah's Ark.
The movement is also promoting
the existence of UFOs and alien abductions and that dinosaurs roamed
the British countryside in Tudor times.
In particular the movement is targeting the teaching of science,
geology and geography in British schools, either directly within the
lessons or through guest speakers and Christian Unions. Their actions
make the teaching of these subjects ineffective with the resultant
failure of pupils to pass their exams.
The position has become so serious that two leading, prestigious,
British universities, Leeds and Leicester, are
introducing compulsory
remedial courses to undo the damage done. The credibility of a third,
Bristol, is
being seriously damaged by the actions of one of its
staff active in the creationist movement.
Indeed, there is a core of about seven activist fundamentalists
within British universities attempting to discredit subjects taught
there which contradict their religious opinions. Such subjects
include medicine, biology, genetics, microbiology, biochemistry,
physics, astronomy, cosmology, geology, earth sciences, geography,
geophysics, chemistry, archaeology, paleoanthropology, ancient
history, theology and linguistics. These represent a vast area of
higher education and research in the UK.
Moreover, the movement includes extreme political objectives, one of
which is the replacement of democracy with a theocracy based on its
extreme religious opinions. Howard Ahmanson was, for a quarter of a
century, on the board of the Chalcedon Foundation which advocated the
murder of those that disagreed with its fundamentalist religion and
the re-introduction of slavery. Ahmanson funds the Discovery
Institute has a clear agenda to take political power and he is also
deeply involved in the Oxford Centre for Mission Studies.
The movement has clearly adopted techniques of evasion and deception
about its techniques and objectives, following practices developed
within the fundamentalist movement in the United States.
In 2002 a group of 27 fundamentalists in academia, education and
business lobbyed the then Secretary of State for Education, Estelle
Morris, to allow the teaching of creationism in science lessons in
state schools. In a letter to the Secretary of State, made publicly
available, they claimed to be acting as individuals, ad hoc, and gave
their professional positions and the names of the organisations that
employed them, including leading universities. The letter also
claimed that their views did not necessarily represent the
organisations they were associated with.
However, it now transpires this was far from the case. 15 of the 27
were involved in the fundamentalist Biblical Creation Society
including its then head and its now current head. All of the 27 were
involved in at least one, and in many cases, more, of the main
creationist organisations in the country. One was also closely
involved in the Christian Institute which itself has been involved in
and closely associated with the creationist Vardy schools. These
organisations are involved in teaching creationism in schools and
this had a vested interest in its continuance. None of this was
disclosed in the letter either to the Secretary of State or the
public.
Yet this is a major issue of public policy. The creationist movement,
through the academy schools it is sponsoring, is likely to receive
well over £200 million in funding from the taxpaying public, which is
already paying for remedial education in universities as a result of
the actions of creationists.
The British Centre for Science Education is a newly formed group of
individuals which intends to act as an umbrella group to stop the
teaching of creationism in state schools. Its primary role is to act
as an umbrella group to support other groups and individuals with the
same aim and to develop and implement activist tactics. The movement
currently has some 50 members, resident in the UK,
North America,
Australia, South Africa and the mainland of Europe. It is currently
open to membership, free of charge, by invitation.
The group is actively building up an intelligence base of the
structure and activities of fundamentalist organisations active in
attempting to teach creationism in schools. This is intended for use
by both the organisations we support, educators, local education
authorities, local and national politicians, students intending to
study at universities with active fundamentalist staff, businesses
recruiting from schools and universities, professional bodies
involved in science and the media.
The individuals involved have, between the, considerable experience
and knowledge of the creationist movement. They are mostly
professional people. Many are experienced activists in their own
right. Their backgrounds include science, business, theology,
education, academia, engineering and research.
We have put together an international group because the creationist
movement itself is international, with strong connections with the
USA and Australia. The
universities being affected have strong
international links through students, staff and research. We believe
that the international links considerably strengthens the
organisation in terms of both knowledge and skills.
The movement is set to launch its first campaign to raise awareness
of the problem of creationism in education.
It you wish to join or support the movement, please visit our email
forum and discussion group at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blackshadow.
1669
Roger Stanyard
Re: Draft Statement
14/07/2006 17:59:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Timothy Chase" <timothychase@...>
wrote:
>
>> One question though: how would the young earth creationists distort
> geography? I can see how they are targetting the other disciplines,
> but geography? One would have to be bonkers.
>
That's easy. Geography in the UK includes physical geography which is
often also part of earth sciences. Basically you need to know how old
the landscape features are. Physical geography quite heavily overlaps
with geology as a subject (at least it did when I was taught the two
subjects).
Roger
1670
Roger Stanyard
Re: Draft Statement
14/07/2006 17:54:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Young" <martin@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Roger,
>
> To my mind the structure of this is back to front.
I completely agree with you - part of the problem of starting on it a 6
am, stopping at 9 am, and a quick finish at lunch time to push it asap.
I'll correct this immediately
Roger
1671
Roger Stanyard
Re: Draft Statement
14/07/2006 18:09:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <taoist.hermit1@...> wrote:
>
> > Obviously I don't know specifically what Roger had in mind, but
presumably
> misuse of plate techtonics would come under this heading? (YEC
argument
> that the animals disembarking from Noah's Ark were able to get to
where they
> are now because continental drift hadn't yet happened. :D)
>
> There's also the stuff about the mountains being significantly lower,
oceans
> being shallower etc etc a few thousand years ago, unless that comes
under
> geology?
Oh yeaah, there's loads of stuff like that which tries to rubbish the
underpinnings of physical geography. Glaciation of landscapes was one
of the big things we used to study. The nutters stuff, if believed,
would guarantee you failed the exams. I gather they have jumped through
all kinds of bizarre hola-hoops to explain away glaciation or claim
that it all happened over the space of a bank-holiday weekend when
nobody was noticing because they were all down the pub blotto.
Roger
>
1672
Roger Stanyard
Re: Draft Statement
14/07/2006 18:26:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Wilson Alan" <Alan.Wilson@...>
wrote:
>
Thanks Alan,
> I think the draft is excellent and have only two suggestions (one
trivial and the other may be OTT):
>
> 1. Replace the first use of "umbrella" with "coordinating" or
something similar to avoid repetition in:
>
Done.
>
>
>
> 2. Have the draft reviewed by a lawyer to avoid the risk of legal
action against the group.
As the group has no formal legal identity (yet) I don't think it can
be sued under libel laws. It's me that's going to get sued because I
wrote it. And my language is a lot less strong than I have used in my
blog.
I have no budget for a lawyer and don't believe in spending any money
on them unless pushed. Same with bean counters - it's just
unproductive overhead. If we get a budget together I think it would
be far better spent on actions and campaigns that produce results.
Unless, of course, somebody in the group knows of a lawyer who will
do it for free.
I have been very very careful indeed in painstakingly checking my
facts before writing this. You can see the research that went into it
on my blog at http://360.yahoo.com/stanyardroger There's lots of it
and a lot I haven't posted (yet).
Roger
1673
Roger Stanyard
Lines on the Arrest of Dr Dino
14/07/2006 18:36:00
Lines on the Arrest of Dr Kent Hovind
By Dr Andrew Snelling, Institute for Creation Research, California
G'Day All,
I'm Dr Andrew Snelling of the Institute for Creation Research and I
have been invited to add a few lines to this group on the arrest of
our unfortunate fellow creationist mate, Dr Kent Hovind.
Well, as a creative user of numbers over many years I can sympathise
with Dr Hovind about the use of zeros in documents in making sure my
bank account is healthy. Who couldn't forgive the good Dr for doing
the same on his IRS tax forms. The odd zero here or there when it
comes to questions like "State Your Taxable Gross Income for the year
2004" is something we all add from time to time. It's fair dinkum.
Take my work as a world class geologist, for example. When I work as
a consultant for the mining industry I often add a number of zeros to
my estimates of the ages of rocks. It keeps the mining bizzo real
happy and they keep handing me more work. Strewth, with those tight
fisted sods at the Institute for Creation Research paying me a
pittance, it's the only way. I can tell you, mate, it works. You
should see my bank account.
Mind you, if you are addressing a bunch of pommy kids at Emmanuel
School or a bunch of Banana Benders back home in the Outback, why
bother with adding a few zeros to the age of rocks. Three zeros after
a number is good enough. Save yourself the effort of typing in a few
more. The buggers haven't got any dosh, anyway, so it doesn't make a
didgeridoo's difference to what you've got stashed away in the bank.
Mind you, you've gotta add the odd zero to the age of Noah and his
mates to get it all to stack up.
Yep, zeros are real popular amongst us creationist types. Take, for
example, the number of recognised qualifications our mate Kent has.
Or the number of scientific papers we get published. Or the court
cases we win. Or our credibility.
1674
ukantic
Re: Draft Statement
14/07/2006 19:01:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...>
wrote:
>
> I've put together a draft statement of what we are about, based on
> what Tim drafted. The draft is below. All and every comment will
be
> gratefully received. Please, please, feel free to make your
opinions
> known. This is a collective effort.
>
> Roger
I seem to recall the word, "covert" in Timothy's original draft. I
think it might be an idea to include it in the wording where the
teaching of creationism is mentioned in relation to The Vardy
Foundation. Otherwise they will simply deny it. The teaching is not
done as part of the curriculum, it's done as a kind of extra
curricular activity by teachers & staff offering up personal
opinions &/or using the language of teach the controversy/critical
thinking developed solely by the creationist movement & consisting
of statements that undermines the status of evolution in the minds
of impressionable children.
Alan
1675
Mikey Brass
Re: Draft Statement
14/07/2006 19:14:00
Geography should be geology.
1676
Wilson Alan
RE: Re: Draft Statement
14/07/2006 19:20:00
bgcolor="white"
----
'From:'
BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com [BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com] 'On Behalf Of 'Roger Stanyard
'Sent:' 14 July 2006 18:26
'To:' BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
'Subject:' [BlackShadow] Re: Draft
Statement
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com,
"Wilson Alan" <Alan.Wilson@...>
wrote:
>
Thanks Alan,
> I think the draft is excellent and have only two suggestions (one
trivial and the other may be OTT):
>
> 1. Replace the first use of "umbrella" with
"coordinating" or
something similar to avoid repetition in:
>
Done.
>
>
>
> 2. Have the draft reviewed by a lawyer to avoid the risk of legal
action against the group.
As the group has no formal legal identity (yet) I don't think it can
be sued under libel laws. It's me that's going to get sued because I
wrote it. And my language is a lot less strong than I have used in my
blog.
I have no budget for a lawyer and don't believe in spending any money
on them unless pushed. Same with bean counters - it's just
unproductive overhead. If we get a budget together I think it would
be far better spent on actions and campaigns that produce results.
Unless, of course, somebody in the group knows of a lawyer who will
do it for free.
I have been very very careful indeed in painstakingly checking my
facts before writing this. You can see the research that went into it
on my blog at http://360.yahoo.com/stanyardroger
There's lots of it
and a lot I haven't posted (yet).
That’s fine with
me.
Alan W
1677
ukantic
Re: news story
14/07/2006 20:01:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny Flank" <lflank@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> http://www.blyth-
> wansbecktoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?
SectionID=1115&ArticleID=1622960
>
>
> Foundation puts its case for academy in south east Northumberland
>
> PUPILS being forced to carry bibles in their pockets, a system of
> covert selection and the teaching of creationism are 'myths' the
> Emmanuel Foundation is keen to dispel as News Post Leader reporter
> ANTHONY McLEAN takes a tour of the King's Academy in Middlesbrough
> =OPENED in 2003 to replace the Brackenhoe and Coulby Newham
secondary
> schools, King's Academy in Middlesbrough has doubled student
> achievement at GCSE.
Well, this article might be a good place to start with any campaign,
typically for a piece of local reporting, the Vardy Foundation (in
the form of N.M) are doing all the talking, there is the usual straw
man about pupils carrying Bibles, some wishy-washy criticism etc. Is
the Vardy Foundation the only one allowed to put its views across?
Is this censorship by omission?
For example, N.M states:
"We want to encourage students to see the world for themselves and
develop their own beliefs."We don't want to preach to them."
Yet we know from the views expressed by the senior management
(including NM) of these schools that their motivation is the
promotion of their extreme religious views. It is therefore totally
& absolutely wrong of N.M to suggest otherwise. If N.M genuinely
wanted to encourage students (children) to think for themselves,
then he should stop trying to push his personal religious views onto
them. He should stop saturating their school environment with his &
the schools sponsor's religious symbols & he should stop turning our
school system into a religious battleground in which the Dark Ages
have some assumed & totally unjustified superior position.
I have suggested this before: one way might be to use a program such
as writeboard.
http://www.writeboard.com/tour/
Interested parties could add comments, criticisms etc in a rough
draft/note type form in an upper section. Someone who is good at
English could convert it into a reply in a lower section before
being checked through for errors & sent off. This could all be
coordinated from discussion on the forum.
Remember, one well aimed punch, one article from us critical of the
VF that did manage to break through that glass ceiling of censorship
(which is how I see this bias towards the creationists) to find
itself being published in either the local or national press is
worth more than a years worth of arguing & fighting with
creationists or convoluted discussion on this forum.
To paraphrase Sigourney Weaver, "we're not here to study them, we're
here to wipe them out" (or something like that). It's okay Nick,
you'll be given the chance to convert first.
Alan.
1678
Timothy Chase
Re: Draft Statement
14/07/2006 19:50:00
On 14/07/06, Mikey Brass <michael.brass@uclmail.net> wrote:
>
> Geography should be geology.
I would be inclined to agree.
Geography to me at least means the lay of the land, the altitudes of
landmasses relative to sea level, the boundaries between bodies of
water and landmasses, but not what actually constitutes the
landmasses. It would omit the geology, minerology, the processes
which gave rise to various landmasses, the tectonics, etc. It would
be meaningful to speak of paleogeography, but I would regard that as a
subdiscipline of geology rather than geography - despite the name.
1679
oeditor
Re: Lines on the Arrest of Dr Dino
14/07/2006 19:40:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...> wrote:
>
> Lines on the Arrest of Dr Kent Hovind
>
Excellent news, Roger - and hot off the press. I like the previous
dismissal of his case:
"The debtor apparently maintains that as a minister of God, everything
he owns belongs to God and he is not subject to paying taxes to the
United States on money he receives for doing God's work," U.S.
Bankruptcy Judge Lewis Killian Jr. wrote when he dismissed a claim
from Hovind in 1996."
Quoted in the report of his current arrest.
http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060714/NEWS01/6\
07140333/1006
=
http://tinyurl.com/fawbl
Brian
1680
Joe Cooper
Intelligent falling theory
14/07/2006 21:17:00
http://click.theonion.com/c.html?s=6jy,lirj,19ys,8f0f,37ag,c0l5,oqa
Intelligent falling theory
1681
Joe Cooper
Re: Re: Lines on the Arrest of Dr Dino
14/07/2006 21:25:00
I guess South Africa will have to miss seeing Hovind in Person.
Joe Cooper
oeditor wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
> <BlackShadow%40yahoogroups.com>, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Lines on the Arrest of Dr Kent Hovind
> >
> Excellent news, Roger - and hot off the press. I like the previous
> dismissal of his case:
>
> "The debtor apparently maintains that as a minister of God, everything
> he owns belongs to God and he is not subject to paying taxes to the
> United States on money he receives for doing God's work," U.S.
> Bankruptcy Judge Lewis Killian Jr. wrote when he dismissed a claim
> from Hovind in 1996."
>
> Quoted in the report of his current arrest.
>
http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060714/NEWS01/6\
07140333/1006
>
<http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060714/NEWS01/\
607140333/1006>
> =
> http://tinyurl.com/fawbl <http://tinyurl.com/fawbl>
>
> Brian
>
>
1682
Marc Draco
Re: Re: Draft Statement
14/07/2006 21:36:00
bgcolor="#ffffff"
Bob Geldof is an atheist - and he has LOADS of money.
How about getting him on board? Anyone close enough?
Wilson Alan wrote:
->
----
'From:'
BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com [BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com] 'On Behalf Of 'Roger Stanyard
'Sent:' 14 July 2006
18:26
'To:'
BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
'Subject:' [BlackShadow]
Re: Draft
Statement
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com,
"Wilson Alan" <Alan.Wilson@...>
wrote:
>
Thanks Alan,
> I think the draft is excellent and have only two suggestions (one
trivial and the other may be OTT):
>
> 1. Replace the first use of "umbrella" with
"coordinating" or
something similar to avoid repetition in:
>
Done.
>
>
>
> 2. Have the draft reviewed by a lawyer to avoid the risk of legal
action against the group.
As the group has no formal legal identity (yet) I don't think it can
be sued under libel laws. It's me that's going to get sued because I
wrote it. And my language is a lot less strong than I have used in my
blog.
I have no budget for a lawyer and don't believe in spending any money
on them unless pushed. Same with bean counters - it's just
unproductive overhead. If we get a budget together I think it would
be far better spent on actions and campaigns that produce results.
Unless, of course, somebody in the group knows of a lawyer who will
do it for free.
I have been very very careful indeed in painstakingly checking my
facts before writing this. You can see the research that went into it
on my blog at http://360.yahoo.com/stanyardroger
There's lots of it
and a lot I haven't posted (yet).
That’s fine
with
me.
Alan W
1683
Joe Cooper
Kent hovind arrested
14/07/2006 21:19:00
http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/news/2006/FL/470_kent_hovind_arrested_on_federa\
_7_14_2006.asp
Kent Hovind arrested on 58 federal charges
1684
Roger Stanyard
Re: Lines on the Arrest of Dr Dino
14/07/2006 22:19:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "oeditor" <b-jordan@...> wrote:
>
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@> wrote:
> >
> > Lines on the Arrest of Dr Kent Hovind
> >
> Excellent news, Roger - and hot off the press. I like the previous
> dismissal of his case:
>
> "The debtor apparently maintains that as a minister of God, everything
> he owns belongs to God and he is not subject to paying taxes to the
> United States on money he receives for doing God's work," U.S.
> Bankruptcy Judge Lewis Killian Jr. wrote when he dismissed a claim
> from Hovind in 1996."
>
> Quoted in the report of his current arrest.
> http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?
AID=/20060714/NEWS01/607140333/1006
> =
> http://tinyurl.com/fawbl
>
> Brian
>
1685
Andrew
Re: Re: Draft Statement
14/07/2006 22:21:00
----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Draco
> Bob Geldof is an atheist - and he has LOADS of money.
> How about getting him on board? Anyone close enough?
I can try it, but none of my music business connections really link up with
him. I'll check out his management etc and give it a go, but if anyone has
a definite link and can simply go direct to him, please let me know.
1686
Roger Stanyard
Re: Lines on the Arrest of Dr Dino
14/07/2006 22:26:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "oeditor" <b-jordan@...> wrote:
>
>
> "The debtor apparently maintains that as a minister of God, everything
> he owns belongs to God and he is not subject to paying taxes to the
> United States on money he receives for doing God's work," U.S.
> Bankruptcy Judge Lewis Killian Jr. wrote when he dismissed a claim
> from Hovind in 1996."
>
Um, yes, no more a minister of God than he is a PhD graduate. My cat's
backside is as well qualified to be a minister of God and can probably
match him on science.
Jeez, this is the sort of trailer trash intellect that Nick Cowan is
pushing at Bluecoat and, at the same time, accepting a salary from the
tax payer at the end of every month.
Why is it that these fundie people like Cowan and Hovind are all school
teachers?
Roger
.
> Quoted in the report of his current arrest.
> http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?
AID=/20060714/NEWS01/607140333/1006
> =
> http://tinyurl.com/fawbl
>
> Brian
>
1687
Andrew
Re: Bob Geldof (was Draft Statement)
14/07/2006 22:56:00
Ok. I've now got a couple of possible routes if people think it might be a
good idea to contact Bob Geldof.
Is this an idea people think we should pursue, or not?
If we do, we'd need to agree a draft of the communication to him.
1688
Lenny Flank
Re: Re: news story
14/07/2006 23:54:00
>> Well, this article might be a good place to start with any campaign,
> typically for a piece of local reporting, the Vardy Foundation (in the
> form of N.M) are doing all the talking, there is the usual straw man
> about pupils carrying Bibles, some wishy-washy criticism etc. Is the
> Vardy Foundation the only one allowed to put its views across? Is this
> censorship by omission?
May I suggest that someone contact the writer of this article and
present the other view? I can't imagine an editor passing up an
opportunity to generate a bit of controversy. Good for readership,
ya know.
===================================
Lenny Flank
"There are no loose threads in the web of life"
Creation "Science" Debunked
http://www.geocities.com/lflank
My Reptile Page
http://www.geocities.com/lflank/herp.html
1689
Lenny Flank
Re: Re: Lines on the Arrest of Dr Dino
14/07/2006 23:53:00
> --- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Stanyard" <roger@...>
> wrote: > > Lines on the Arrest of Dr Kent Hovind > Excellent news,
> Roger - and hot off the press. I like the previous dismissal of his
> case:
>
> "The debtor apparently maintains that as a minister of God, everything
> he owns belongs to God and he is not subject to paying taxes to the
> United States on money he receives for doing God's work," U.S.
> Bankruptcy Judge Lewis Killian Jr. wrote when he dismissed a claim
> from Hovind in 1996."
>
> Quoted in the report of his current arrest.
> http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2006071
> 4/NEWS01/607140333/1006 = http://tinyurl.com/fawbl
>
There's more to it than this, and it's quite interesting and
informative. "Dr" Hovind is what the IRS refers to as a "tax
protestor". That is a group of right-wing nutters who think taxes
are "voluntary". They have VERY extensive connections to the far-
right "Christian patriot militia" movement, the same group of nutters
that Tim McVeigh ran around in as he was planning the Oklahoma City
bombing (McVeigh, interestingly enough, first got involved with the
militia movement by way of the tax protester movement).
Hovind has connections to the far-right militia loons right up to his
eyebrows, and many of Hovind's nutty conspiracy theories (the US
government blew up the Oklahaoma building so it could blame the
militias, the US government is spying on people through their TV
sets) are lifted intact, word for word, from the "Christian
patriots".
The "militia" movement, of course, has extensive ties to the rest of
the right-wing lunatics, including the ultra-racist "Christian
Identity" movement.
If the Feds go sifting through Hovind's militia connections, things
could get very interesting.
Oh, and yes, American fundies like Pat Robertson and Jack Van Impe
have said nice things about the militia kooks in the past. At least
they DID, right up till the Oklahoma City bombing, when all of a
sudden, for some odd reason, they fell all over themselves to
disassociate themselves from their former pals.
===================================
Lenny Flank
"There are no loose threads in the web of life"
Creation "Science" Debunked
http://www.geocities.com/lflank
My Reptile Page
http://www.geocities.com/lflank/herp.html
1690
Wilson Alan
RE: Bob Geldof (was Draft Statement)
15/07/2006 01:12:00
bgcolor="white"
Although I admire Bob Geldof greatly I am
not convinced that he would want to represent our group since he is Irish and
not British and therefore would probably have little influence on the domestic educational
scene.
Alan W
----
'From:'
BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com [BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com] 'On Behalf Of 'Andrew
'Sent:' 14 July 2006 22:56
'To:' BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
'Subject:' Re: [BlackShadow] Bob
Geldof (was Draft Statement)
Ok. I've now got a couple of possible routes if people think it might be a
good idea to contact Bob Geldof.
Is this an idea people think we should pursue, or not?
If we do, we'd need to agree a draft of the communication to him.
1691
Roger Stanyard
Re: Bob Geldof (was Draft Statement)
15/07/2006 08:14:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Wilson Alan" <Alan.Wilson@...>
wrote:
>
> Although I admire Bob Geldof greatly I am not convinced that he
would
> want to represent our group since he is Irish and not British and
> therefore would probably have little influence on the domestic
> educational scene.
>
John Macakay is Australian and that hasn't stopped him trying to
influence British education. I don't think we should rule out people
because they are not British. That's bonkers given the support we are
getting from the Americans, Rudy and others.
Moreover about a fifth of the population of the UK claim to be Irish
or have Irish ancestry. 37m Americans claim likewise!
I also assume that Bob Geldorg owns a British passport. After all he
was married or whetever to a Brit and has a knighthood. The British
establishment captured him as their own years back. I also assume
that he is resident in the UK but could be wrong on that.
we've mentioned trying to get Steve Jones on board. That's someting
I'll be working on this weekend. My own view is at this stage someone
with the right contacts at the Royal Society could prove invaluable.
Now, of course the one that would really give us a profile is Ossie
Osbourne!!! Dead Ringers and Royal Garden parties here we come!
Roger
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
[BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Andrew
> Sent: 14 July 2006 22:56
> To: BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [BlackShadow] Bob Geldof (was Draft Statement)
>
>
>
>
> Ok. I've now got a couple of possible routes if people think it
might be
> a
> good idea to contact Bob Geldof.
>
> Is this an idea people think we should pursue, or not?
>
> If we do, we'd need to agree a draft of the communication to him.
>
1692
Roger Stanyard
Re: Lines on the Arrest of Dr Dino
15/07/2006 08:36:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny Flank" <lflank@...> wrote:
>
Hovind and his details are exactly what we should have in our
database of key players. Whilst he appears to have had little
involvement in the UK, his material sells here - IIRC CSM was pushing
his stuff when I last looked.
Moreover, AiG appears to have removed their web page that degenerates
his "science". They did this at about the time they split from
Creation Ministries annd I take the move to be an endoresemnt of
Hovind.
We need to scream this fact as much as we can.
As Lenny pointed out a couple of weeks back, Hovind thinks democracy
is a sham; linking him to AiG (and any group that sells his hocus
pocus) gives us ammunition that the public and the media can
understand even though (currently) few know who the hell he is.
Hovind's arrest (and, hopefully what somes out of it) gives us a lot
of ammunition to discredit the fundies.
You have probably noiticed that everytime the DI or the Oxford Centre
for Mission Studies crops up, I always (if I can) mention that Howard
Ahmanson was involved in an organisation that advocates mass murder,
including killing most members of the British public.
It's that sort of message we need to keep pushing and pushing until
it sinks in. If the public end up thinking he is another Caligula and
associate fundies with him, well.........(Big Evil Grin)
And, er, if they end up associating AiG with Timothy McVeigh and
paramilitaries, all the better. McVeigh is a name they all recognise
in the UK.
Roger
>>
> There's more to it than this, and it's quite interesting and
> informative. "Dr" Hovind is what the IRS refers to as a "tax
> protestor". That is a group of right-wing nutters who think taxes
> are "voluntary". They have VERY extensive connections to the far-
> right "Christian patriot militia" movement, the same group of
nutters
> that Tim McVeigh ran around in as he was planning the Oklahoma City
> bombing (McVeigh, interestingly enough, first got involved with the
> militia movement by way of the tax protester movement).
1693
Roger Stanyard
Re: news story
15/07/2006 08:38:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Lenny Flank" <lflank@...> wrote:
>
Does anyone want to draft up a letter over the weekend? I'll help.
Roger
>
> May I suggest that someone contact the writer of this article and
> present the other view? I can't imagine an editor passing up an
> opportunity to generate a bit of controversy. Good for readership,
> ya know.
>
>
1694
Roger Stanyard
Re: Bob Geldof (was Draft Statement)
15/07/2006 08:43:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <taoist.hermit1@...> wrote:
>
I think it is well worth a try. I don't have any knowledge who we could
contact him but would like to make a suggestion.
Even if we had an email address, we would probably be wasting our time
using it. He'd get loads of junk inside his in-box and probably
wouldn't notice our message.
I think it would be far more effective to write to him with snail mail,
or, better still, get some kind of introduction to him through another
part. We are currently an unknown quantity.
Roger.
> Ok. I've now got a couple of possible routes if people think it might
be a
> good idea to contact Bob Geldof.
>
> Is this an idea people think we should pursue, or not?
>
> If we do, we'd need to agree a draft of the communication to him.
>
1695
Marc Draco
Re: Re: news story
15/07/2006 10:43:00
bgcolor="#ffffff"
This quote,
"OPENED in 2003 to replace the Brackenhoe and Coulby Newham secondary
schools, King's Academy in Middlesbrough has doubled student
achievement at GCSE."
If I understand correctly is not only woefully inaccurate, it's a
downright lie. Unison has a very different view. Doubtless this will be
raised at Blyth next week. If anyone else wants to come, we're leaving
Middlesbrough around 3 and you can guarantee (local) press attention.
National press should be invited too. Perhaps Unison (and others here)
should be tipping the nod to the other papers.
I don't have time to get the actual results to check, but they will be
available if someone has the time...
This is typical of the local press who are under pressure from local
advertisers who are in turn under pressure from the VERY rich... just
join the dots.
The nationals could smash this glass ceiling: but it needs to be a
tabloid like the Stun. The quality papers don't reach sufficient people
(i.e. voters).
You'll notice that Mr McLean didn't come to see people like me or
Stefan with actual experience; but if they had, do you think it would
have made the paper. This demonstrates a bias or even cover-up that
would make a good story for, say, TES or the Mail. Laura Clark got a
typically bullshit answer to her piece in the Mail some months ago and
this is another excellent chance to expose the level of covert (perhaps
even unintentional) corruption that really IS going on.
ukantic wrote:
->
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com,
"Lenny Flank" <lflank@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> http://www.blyth-
> wansbecktoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?
SectionID=1115&ArticleID=1622960
>
>
> Foundation puts its case for academy in south east Northumberland
>
> PUPILS being forced to carry bibles in their pockets, a system of
> covert selection and the teaching of creationism are 'myths' the
> Emmanuel Foundation is keen to dispel as News Post Leader reporter
> ANTHONY McLEAN takes a tour of the King's Academy in Middlesbrough
> =OPENED in 2003 to replace the Brackenhoe and Coulby Newham
secondary
> schools, King's Academy in Middlesbrough has doubled student
> achievement at GCSE.
Well, this article might be a good place to start with any campaign,
typically for a piece of local reporting, the Vardy Foundation (in
the form of N.M) are doing all the talking, there is the usual straw
man about pupils carrying Bibles, some wishy-washy criticism etc. Is
the Vardy Foundation the only one allowed to put its views across?
Is this censorship by omission?
For example, N.M states:
"We want to encourage students to see the world for themselves and
develop their own beliefs."We don't want to preach to them."
Yet we know from the views expressed by the senior management
(including NM) of these schools that their motivation is the
promotion of their extreme religious views. It is therefore totally
& absolutely wrong of N.M to suggest otherwise. If N.M genuinely
wanted to encourage students (children) to think for themselves,
then he should stop trying to push his personal religious views onto
them. He should stop saturating their school environment with his &
the schools sponsor's religious symbols & he should stop turning
our
school system into a religious battleground in which the Dark Ages
have some assumed & totally unjustified superior position.
I have suggested this before: one way might be to use a program such
as writeboard.
http://www.writeboard.com/tour/
Interested parties could add comments, criticisms etc in a rough
draft/note type form in an upper section. Someone who is good at
English could convert it into a reply in a lower section before
being checked through for errors & sent off. This could all be
coordinated from discussion on the forum.
Remember, one well aimed punch, one article from us critical of the
VF that did manage to break through that glass ceiling of censorship
(which is how I see this bias towards the creationists) to find
itself being published in either the local or national press is
worth more than a years worth of arguing & fighting with
creationists or convoluted discussion on this forum.
To paraphrase Sigourney Weaver, "we're not here to study them, we're
here to wipe them out" (or something like that). It's okay Nick,
you'll be given the chance to convert first.
Alan.
1696
Marc Draco
Not for publication.
15/07/2006 11:00:00
Sir,
your article by Antony McClean exposes a shocking level of cynicism
which is clearly meant to stroke Sir Peter Vardy's ego: again.
The truth of the Vardy Foundation schools (and the King's Academy in
particular) is rather different the one-sided view your writer reported.
For instance, Mr McQuoid admits to teaching creationism: a subject that
is specifically outlawed by the government. They lie and twist the
meaning of the KS4 government guidelines to get their own message over
and are keen to bend the facts so far that any spin doctor would be
proud of them.
* Children are not required to carry bibles: but they ARE required to
read from one three times a week in addition to two "whole school
services".
* GCSE results, according to a UNISON report at Kings are *falling* in
science.
* One child I spoke to made it clear that anyone who wished to be
excluded from religious services is gently persuaded to return..
* According to the former Deputy Head, Gordon Potter, the expected
results that these "massive improvements" are based on are largely untrue.
* Regardless of how the government counts exclusions, the facts remain
that Nigel McQuoid kicked out something around 10x as many children as
the all the schools in the area.
and so on.
The UNISON report appears here: http://www.unison.org.uk/file/A2340.pdf
Aiding and abetting these disgraceful lies as your articles have is
surely not in the spirit of real journalism. As a fellow writer, I am
disappointed that you allow such clearly biased reporting to pass your
desk: you ought to be ashamed.
I will be at the Blyth meeting next week and I'd be glad to assist in
correcting these errors before the nationals do.
Marc Draco
1697
Marc Draco
Local Press BS again
15/07/2006 11:04:00
More bullshit. Sorry, but that's all this is.
http://tinyurl.com/gmvdj
Sure Sir Peter could buy a Yacht (if the foundation rules would let him)
*but* he couldn't buy a £25M Yacht for £2M and sell that Yacht in 25
years time; now could he?
If he really wanted to help like a true philanthropist, he could gift
the 2M to the people who need it most.
I've complained to these assholes, it'll fall on deaf ears of course,
but I wonder if anyone else would like to.
1698
Roger Stanyard
Re: news story
15/07/2006 11:27:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Marc Draco <midnight.diamond@...>
wrote:
>
> This quote,
>
> "OPENED in 2003 to replace the Brackenhoe and Coulby Newham secondary
> schools, King's Academy in Middlesbrough has doubled student
achievement
> at GCSE."
>
One of the members of this group is Tony Brookes who was headteacher of
Thorne Grammar School between 1987 and 2002. Thorne Grammar was taken
over by Vardy in 2005 to form the Trinity Aacademy.
Tony, if you are still using the group, I suspect that Marc (and the
rest of us) would deeply value you advice and assistance.
Roger
1699
Roger Stanyard
Re: Not for publication.
15/07/2006 11:40:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Marc Draco <midnight.diamond@...>
wrote:
>
> Sir,
>
> your article by Antony McClean exposes...
I think it much better to use the term student (or even pupil) than
child. A lot of them there are old enough to fight for their country,
marry and so on. I think we need to attract more students and ex-
students from the Vardy schools.
We struck lucky with Stefan who is clearly a bloke with his head
screwed on the right way (as McQuoid knows). Stefan - can you get
some of them to join us?
Marc/Stefan - you suggested that a demonstration was in the pipeline.
I can't help on the legal stuff here as I am clueless about it but
perhaps Peter may be able to point in the right direction at the NSS.
They have been involved in demos recently including supporting Jerry
Spinger- the Opera. George Jellis on the NSS newsline was behind the
one in Leicester.
Methinks that if there is to be a demo, it is an extremely good idea
if this forum is represented. At a push I could make it there.
Roger
Roger
1700
Roger Stanyard
Re: Local Press BS again
15/07/2006 11:52:00
--- In BlackShadow@yahoogroups.com, Marc Draco <midnight.diamond@...>
wrote:
>
> More bullshit. Sorry, but that's all this is.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/gmvdj
>
That article bloody terrifies me. It seems to be suggesting that EST
wants to create all inclusive schools for children between 3 and 18. As
far as I am aware, that is unknown in the state sector in the UK.
The frightening thing is that it gives the fundies access to children
for fifteen years. Even in my part of the world, the denominational
schools only got them from 11 to 16 (with a few up to 18 but that's
gone with the formation of 6th Form colleges).
So, effectively, Vardy is planning to take over, kindergarden, infant,
junior, secondary and sixth form education. His plan for seven schools,
is, in other words, covering what would otherwise somewhere around 28
schools.
There is also another issue about the Vardy schools you may be able to
enlighten me/us on. My understand is that religious education in state
schools is only legally compulsory until 16. From what has been said by
Stefan and others, it appears that it is compulsory until the age of 18
in Vardy schools.
That doesn't sound right at all. These people are young adults. Are
they being forced to listen to the likes of Phillip Johnson, Andrew
Snelling and Ken Ham?
Soory to labour on this, but I think we need to pay attention very
closely to the fine detail.
Roger
